Posts by IronSharpensIron

3

Delineation of Biblical Application for Anointed vs R&F

by IronSharpensIron in

i think it would be great for the gb to clearly define the scriptures that are intended towards the 'anointed' who are already counted, depending on who you believe, and the remainder of scriptures intended for the rest of the followers.

that way there is no confusion during biblical discussions about how little of the bible actually has to do for the great crowd.

and so new studies can clearly see, defined, how little of the bible god cared to preserve for the great crowd.. further it would be useful to know from the gb what scriptures are believed to be literal and which are solely spiritual.. just an idea.

IronSharpensIron

I think it would be great for the GB to clearly define the Scriptures that are intended towards the 'Anointed' who are already counted, depending on who you believe, and the remainder of Scriptures intended for the rest of the followers. That way there is no confusion during Biblical discussions about how little of the Bible actually has to do for the great crowd. And so new studies can clearly see, defined, how little of the Bible God cared to preserve for the Great Crowd.

Further it would be useful to know from the GB what Scriptures are believed to be literal and which are solely spiritual.

Just an idea. Thoughts?

Much love, Derrick.

22

Shunning - Are Mothers Most Fanatical?

by Lostandfound in

on many posts by those with experience of df or da shunning, it look to me that the most fanatical observers of the shunning practise are mothers, and when a person approached parents about their own doubts or intentions, approaching the mother the most daunting prospect .

odd that visiting warwick leaflet has a picture of a meeting of some sort with a room comprising men only, given the subordinate role given to women, one might think they would be more liberal over shunning close ones, but not so.. what drives this, is it grabbing an opportunity to be more visible by their loyalty, or low level of education of a lot of dubs so that the sisters blindly accept direction or authority.

i might have expected some kick back against the shunning practise by sisters giving evidence to their independence of thought.. our real thinkers here will be able to explain this fanaticism of loyalty better.

IronSharpensIron

I believe the women seek their own control in the organization due to the fact that they in reality have very little control over their own lives. For instance the super zealous pioneer sisters who have literally nothing else in their lives. That being said, I think when a mother is told to go against her strongest instincts to throw away a child, she has to really over compensate to convince herself that she is being right and put up a strong front. If it didn't bother their conscience so much they would not be so crazy about it. On the other hand, I think it depends also on what kind of person your mother/father dynamic is. If your mother is more controlled by the super JW father, although she may be a warm loving person, she will yield to him and his God given right to family headship. Or if the mom is a hard believer of her own she may do this on her own anyway. There's a lot of dynamism in the JW, and I think the more the mother is afraid of losing her family and being alone in the world, the more motivated she will be to shun the kid. Something has to give when you're living to such extremes.

15

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Why not create multiple Adam & Eve's?

by doubtfull1799 in

i saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was reddit) that put forward the idea that god should have created multiple couples, not just adam and ever.

this idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that i wish i'd thought of it, but i cannot claim credit!

but it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits.... if god had simply created multiple couples instead of one, he would in one foul swoop have solved the problem of incest, as well as have prevented 6 thousand years of human tragedy and a ransom sacrifice being needed etc.

IronSharpensIron

One idea from me- symbolism. Much of the OT is symbolic of what was to be fulfilled in Jesus. Much of his existence on Earth was to fulfill the prophetic vision of the OT and to be undeniably who he claimed to be to those to whom he presented himself. As was much of his message, intended to show the difference in the 'Law' vs the 'grace' of the forgiveness his sacrifice made way for. His actual ministry being only three years, not even a "long" ministry at all, comparatively speaking. A blip, if you will. Many people like to focus on the brutal maltreatment he endured. Which again I believe to be symbolic of the "sacrificial Lamb" envisioned by John. As he was without sin and no person had a negative accusation to bring against him to justify his execution. I do not believe the 'short lived' nature of his murder was the point of his sacrifice, although it did demonstrate to what end he was willing to go for others who didn't even know or care who he was. He could have sent anyone to be a perfect person in his stead. He did choose not to though. I believe it says something of his character that he, the Way, logos, the power holding together the universe as he claimed, allowed himself to be killed by his creation, for his creation. He could have just destroyed everyone at the start and started over, and what could anyone have said against him? This is simply my perception through my own study of the topic you have brought up. Not an intention to be preachy or sell my thoughts to others.

Much love and keep searching,

Derrick

18

Love for the Hate

by IronSharpensIron in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share a perspective related to my experience with leaving the jw.

at this point, i have been df'd since i was 18. i'm 25, happily married with 2 fantastic children.

after being miserably at odds with my parents and extended family, i've come to some realizations as follows.. i struggled with the conditional nature of my parent's love- talking to me until it bothered their conscience, then cutting me off.

IronSharpensIron

I have reconsidered and have come to a updated conclusion. I really do appreciate everyone's responses to my message and it has helped me see things from other perspectives than my own.

If this only involved me, I would do whatever and be free to go back and make an effort to save my family from the cult.

But this involves my children. It is my job as their father to protect them from dangers when I can. This is the most destructive, dangerous thing I have ever been involved in. As such, I would truly be an fool to willfully pursue involving my children in it.

Also, my family understands that I am desirous of a relationship with them and am willing to reconnect as soon as they are. I am unwilling to rejoin the cult and see my children get F'd up. This is a decision I could not conscience and live with. After all, nobody should have to make a choice they can't live with. I am in control, not this cult.

Much love and many thanks guys,

Derrick

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

IronSharpensIron

Who would you rather hear "The Truth" from, the proven liar of an abusive husband(JW.ORG)? or the court hearings under oath, parents, wife, and children who have put up with it for years until they realized that he was really controlling and abusing them and needed to go? The only power this organization has is the power the followers give it. If you took away all the followers, the elders would be a sad angry confused group of men, following some crazy hats living in NY paradise living off what little they had stored up for years in their coffers.

Much love,

Derrick

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

IronSharpensIron

This Organization you have devoted your soul to will never offer you anything more than conditional love, empty lies and deceit. You will give it everything. You may even be a honest hearted person doing what you think is right. It will give you nothing in return but heart ache and broken families, if not molested anxiety ridden children. I am so sorry that you are so very blinded. When you become disillusioned by the reality of your organization, this website will still be here and there will be an entire community of people here to receive you without judgment, in love and understanding at how truly lost you are.

Much love,

Derrick

5

Thorn in the Elders' Side

by IronSharpensIron in

i've been out of the jw for some time.

but i was just recalling this guy that had formerly been an elder, but had not agreed with the rest of the elders on some issues and had stepped down.

he continued to go to the meetings, make comments at the hall and be critical of the elders.

IronSharpensIron

I've been out of the JW for some time. But I was just recalling this guy that had formerly been an elder, but had not agreed with the rest of the elders on some issues and had stepped down. He continued to go to the meetings, make comments at the hall and be critical of the elders. It was actually humorous, thinking back. They would just cringe at his approach and grudgingly talk to him. If someone was ever reproved or JC'd, he would get all involved and take the side of the person. He actually kind of had a following of his own friends (cliques) in the congregation. Just wondering if you guys ever had a person like this in your congregations?

17

A Little Girl's Coins . . .

by compound complex in

jw
friends

she could have bought an ice cream cone .

.

.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj6r3-sqr58.

IronSharpensIron

Any sensations one may feel from this experience are from Satan. Imagine the empty, wasted life these individuals must feel deep, way down inside. Imagine if they had just invested all that effort sitting behind table hacking the latest WT publications for fifty years, not earning a single disciple? All the wasted years!

18

Love for the Hate

by IronSharpensIron in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share a perspective related to my experience with leaving the jw.

at this point, i have been df'd since i was 18. i'm 25, happily married with 2 fantastic children.

after being miserably at odds with my parents and extended family, i've come to some realizations as follows.. i struggled with the conditional nature of my parent's love- talking to me until it bothered their conscience, then cutting me off.

IronSharpensIron

Thanks for the feedback.

I do fully expect them to shun me again. I am not expecting anything from them. In this case, nothing will have changed. My life has nothing to do with them as of this point. I am mostly just trying to clear my name. I intend to be blameless in their decision making, and for them to stop blaming my past for their shunning me. They will have make their own decision for shunning me any longer and cannot hide behind the elders DF excuse for their treatment of me. I think this is the only thing holding my mother back as my father is an elder and is controlling, using this excuse to keep her from talking to me.

As for my children. Carla, you said it quite well, that families are package deals, warts and all- including Jehovah's Witnesses. I will protect my children the best way I know how. By setting the example in love and keeping them informed. I intend to show my children the difference between conditional love of the Witnesses and real unconditional love in life. I will have my children understand the reality of the Witnesses if they ever have questions. This being said, I will not tolerate any weird JW games going on. I'm not trying to convert them, and I would appreciate them respecting my faith. This will be unquestionable to any family that now desires to be involved.

There are a couple more thoughts to consider. My children will grow up eventually and they could choose to seek out their grandparents after they move out from my home, and get caught up in it all without a guiding hand to understand its realities. This would sadden me greatly, but they will be adults some day, and as such their decisions must be respected. I would want them to see that without being a Witness, I can exclude nobody from my family, JW included. Make them understand what shunning is and what it has done to me and countless others. To see the flaws in the institution. To take personal responsibility for their choices in life.

My biggest lesson for my children in all this is that there is no "us" vs "them." There are only people. They all have flaws, and they all could use real, genuine, unhindered love. If I were to exclude my parents from my life for their behavior, then I would be no better than they are doing the same to me. I could not claim moral high ground and would really be offering my children nothing better than the Witnesses. If my parents choose to shun me despite my clear efforts to recover the connection, I cannot be blamed for this. If I chose to withhold from doing something trivial to reconnect the family, then I could have fault.

Also, my wife is not a JW and my parents have not responded to any efforts of hers to talk to them, so I really don't think it will change anything anyway.

I understand the inherent risks, and intend to minimize what I can. I can only strive to be the example for my children using my life as the example. I will reflect further on the decision to be reinstated, but there are risks with anything. I really do appreciate the shared thoughts of you all. I will take them to heart and try to make the best decision from all perspectives.

Much love,

Derrick

18

Love for the Hate

by IronSharpensIron in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share a perspective related to my experience with leaving the jw.

at this point, i have been df'd since i was 18. i'm 25, happily married with 2 fantastic children.

after being miserably at odds with my parents and extended family, i've come to some realizations as follows.. i struggled with the conditional nature of my parent's love- talking to me until it bothered their conscience, then cutting me off.

IronSharpensIron

Greetings all,

I have finally settled on a decision. My JW family views me as a disfellowshipped person, a label which excuses them from their poor behavior and justifies their holding of a grudge for my pasts mistakes. In their fervor, they have gone overseas in an effort to spread their good news to others, and perhaps escape some of our shared past. Now, after nearly a decade, my intention is to earnestly pursue reinstatement as quickly as possible and fade immediately following the announcement, fading into obscurity with no trail to follow. My thinking is as follows.

1. That they may not be able to say to my face that my past behavior is continually unforgiven, though I have personally apologized and asked for forgiveness. Any effort at intellectual conversation with my father resorts to his citing my past mistakes relating just how terrible and unjustifiably angry at God I am. By becoming reinstated I will have taken away their excuse for their behavior and clear my name as well. By fading, I will leave on my own terms.

2. To take the first step in love. My father has shown his unwillingness to yield in his maltreatment of myself as a DF family member. I have similarly taken the same stance in that I could not stomach becoming a JW, involving myself ever again. By yielding in something as trivial as a status change in a cult, I can further trivialize the cult's control of my life.

I see the cult for what it is. It has no control over me, and my children have never even heard of it. For that matter, my children will not be involved in the cult's goingson, or be left alone with my parents, ever. I do not need the annulment of DF for myself, but my family may need it if they are ever going to experience any positive influence from an objective person outside the cult.

By fading, I hope to demonstrate to my family how little difference my standing in a cult bears on my own life. They will undoubtedly blame me for all the wasted time in between, for which I must summarily be forgiven once the elders tell them I am forgiven. This will hopefully be an interesting experience for them to have to process. My personal life will continue unchanged from my DF time to my approved reinstated time then into my faded time.

With no excuse to defer my relationship coupled with a desire to reconnect, they can no longer hide from their curious, loving, welcoming, hopeful son with a lovely family.

I hope my perspective may help others in their pursuit of equilibrium in your own lives if at all possible.

Much love,

Derrick