some things i just didnt notice at the time which now seem so obvious:.
the bible tells us that the end will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect it.
(matthew 24:44).
The OT especially is filled with so much horror, and violence. I find it sad that God did not do more to alleviate this and even promoted mistreatment by laws and instructions.
At times like this I start to think there is no God and people were just on their own mission......extends hand towards anti depressants.....
jws advise that we should not take this illustration as literal saying things such as heaven and hell are not in close proximity so that both the inmates can speak to each other, dipping the tip of one’s finger in water would not be enough to put off one’s thirst …etc.. interestingly, jesus himself did not want his listeners to take this illustration literally or figuratively because he mixed both, hence wanted to get the message typical of any story.
if we were to take the illustration figuratively, who do “dogs that came and licked sores of lazar” symbolize?
also, the rich man in the story makes a powerful point when he says: ‘if someone from the dead is resurrected and speaks his surviving family members on earth, they will repent.’ (luke 16:27-31) the powerful logic used in this argument is to be literal, can’t be figurative because it concerns about literal death of a person and his resurrection.. those who are concerned about determining whether this illustration is literal or figurative miss the simple message of this story: god plays no role in the affairs of man and everyone can learn from experience (own or from others) that there is sowing and reaping, hence everyone is free to choose his destiny..
Venus,
Thanks for the reply to my question, I think I am starting to understand your angle on "God plays no role in the affairs of man" in the OP, and it is surely interesting food for thought.
jws advise that we should not take this illustration as literal saying things such as heaven and hell are not in close proximity so that both the inmates can speak to each other, dipping the tip of one’s finger in water would not be enough to put off one’s thirst …etc.. interestingly, jesus himself did not want his listeners to take this illustration literally or figuratively because he mixed both, hence wanted to get the message typical of any story.
if we were to take the illustration figuratively, who do “dogs that came and licked sores of lazar” symbolize?
also, the rich man in the story makes a powerful point when he says: ‘if someone from the dead is resurrected and speaks his surviving family members on earth, they will repent.’ (luke 16:27-31) the powerful logic used in this argument is to be literal, can’t be figurative because it concerns about literal death of a person and his resurrection.. those who are concerned about determining whether this illustration is literal or figurative miss the simple message of this story: god plays no role in the affairs of man and everyone can learn from experience (own or from others) that there is sowing and reaping, hence everyone is free to choose his destiny..
How can you say that "God plays no role in the affairs of man", when their future torment or comfort was dependent on listening to "Moses and the prophets" (verse 29-31) which are the voice of God?
some things i just didnt notice at the time which now seem so obvious:.
the bible tells us that the end will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect it.
(matthew 24:44).
These points are things that have made me doubt God and the bible. It of course doesn't end with the bad treatment of women, but also multiple atrocities (including genocide) in the Bible that are hard to deal with.
Despite this I have somehow stayed religious, even venturing into apologetics for a while, but these things still bother me. Maybe it is my JW programmed fear that keeps me trying...
I remember going to a watchtower study after trying to deal with some of these issues, and the topic was the "impartiality of Jehovah", and I was extremely distraught trying to bring these topics together and still stay sane....
i hope this is the right place to put this.
so, i joined this site a while ago because i was looking for conversation and to help people.
i think at the time i actually needed to be around the kinds of people that i had grown up with as well.
Hi jwundubbed
From your post: "I feel and take on responsibilities that aren't mine. This is what I'm working on at the moment."
I can sympathize with that, because I am also struggling with the same issues. As you know the effects of JW brainwashing have long term effects on our behaviour and thought patterns that seem very difficult to shake. Talking and sharing seem to work wonders though, especially with people that share some common ground.
Best wishes..
i do not wish to trivialize or minimize the horrific murder of a jw lady in finland as she handed out mags etc from her cart in finland, but do you remember the stories we used to hear of angels protecting jw's in their "preaching" work ?.
where were the angels when this lady needed them ?
watching from heaven ?.
Every good experience is attributed to GB and Jehovah, while all the bad ones are attributed to unforeseen occurrences (as mentioned above), or on the weakness or fault of the individual. Therein lies the power of the system the GB has established.
Their claims are unfalsifiable, and that is how they avoid responsibility for everything.
that's what i've been told by a family member (elder) who went to one of the regional conventions in the north of the u.k lately, who told me the 300 or more disfellowshipped who returned to jehovah by attending show that the end is so close, just like the final talk says..
I'm starting to think that "the end is near" that JW's are preaching is not about the end of this system but the end of Jehovah's Witnesses(without them realizing it).
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
that they have starting building towers from watches or watchtowers....
Its sad when you are always watching but forget to open your eyes and ears while doing so.
They are always watching but cannot see or hear what the spirit says....
i have been faded for 5 years raising my kid after jw wife cheated on me.
i go to the memorial here and there.
my mother is a pioneer.
I feel your pain regarding your mother's actions, and I also feel your frustration about loved ones trapped in this organisation...I have to continuously restrain myself from becoming angry, nasty etc about this organisation and the fallout from their way of doing things. People who have left the organisation or cooled down perceive the JW members and GB actions as highly illogical and even cruel, but when you are on the JW bus all these things are sadly the most logical thing in your life, and living by them makes you feel "in a relationship" with God.
It takes self restraint not to start thinking active members are deliberately bad people (though some are), and to realize the GB and JW system are behind how their members act. What usually helps me is to realize that not many years ago I was exactly the same way my mom is now....scaaaary.
a miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws.
bible reports many such miracles.
interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience.
Could the reason be that these people lived at a time when almost everything was a miracle because of scientific ignorance and lack of knowledge?
When the wind blows, it rains, the sun or moon rises and eclipses or lightning strikes and you are not sure what it is, and you think its some act of God, someone turning water into wine seems less special.
Our Lord was killed due to his perceived attack or blasphemy against the religious "truth" of the time...in spite of the miracles he performed to try to wake them up.
