Posts by FFGhost

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

FFGhost

It is awfully muddled, isn’t it?

That’s one of the things I’ve noticed over the past decade or so - their “continuity checks” seem to be lacking. I’ve seen contradictions not just a few weeks or months apart, but even in the same magazine.

Anyways, my best guess would be something like this:

Old Light: when JWs give their “hailstone message”, it’s going to be a sort of “ha ha, God’s gonna get you suckas, you’re doomed doomed DOOMED and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

New Light: when Jaws give their “hailstone message”, some people might be shocked into repentance and they can join at the last minute, “Ha ha suckas, you’re DOOMED but if you act in the next 15 minutes and decide to join our side, God might let you. Clock’s ticking.”

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

FFGhost

As Tonus suggested, the math doesn’t work.

But of course, most JWs are incapable of anything resembling intelligent analysis so they just kind of shrug and ignore it.

The few attempts I’ve heard are a type “no true Scotsman” fallacy:

“Not everyone claiming to be a Christian really was a Christian, the apostasy was already working in the apostle Paul’s time, yada yada yada, hand wave here, misdirection there, why are you asking that question? Have you been reading apostate literature?”

56

The Reason Behind Recent Watchtower Changes

by Vanderhoven7 in

eric wilson's video is worth a view.. https://youtu.be/iil4fryuczk?si=f566n0tdqgpqc2ok.

FFGhost

The tax free status is the lifeblood of the organization. If it goes away,,,the Borg goes away.

As I’ve said a number of times here:

If the organization expended 0.1% of the effort it makes to avoid paying even one penny of tax into cleaning up its CSA issues, it would have by far the cleanest and most innocent organization on the face of the earth.

44

2023 Yearly Report UNDER the Microscope

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/pi7sn2rnrke?si=lnvklqct6nuayv2q.

branches of jehovah’s witnesses: 85 (= down one from 86 from the previous year and quite possibly they are referring to the hong kong bethel that closed down recently).

number of lands reporting: 239 ( =the same as 2022).

FFGhost

Yeah, I get what TOH is saying. Perhaps my comparison was a bit coarse.

But still, if your gross increase is 4% and your gross loss is 3%, your net increase is 1%.

Your net increase is 1% “in reality”. What counts is the net, not the gross.

The JWs are able to replace their members who die, quit, or are kicked out, plus a little more. But the replacements are by and large, especially in the western world, children of believers who are groomed from birth to become baptized JWs. The majority of those born-in baptized JWs will get kicked out or quit within 10-15 years of baptism.

A net growth of 1% isn’t an indicator of robust growth. The numbers are still increasing but the slope of the growth curve is already past it’s inflection point. It’s inevitable that at some point within “X” years even the net will drop into the negative numbers.

44

2023 Yearly Report UNDER the Microscope

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/pi7sn2rnrke?si=lnvklqct6nuayv2q.

branches of jehovah’s witnesses: 85 (= down one from 86 from the previous year and quite possibly they are referring to the hong kong bethel that closed down recently).

number of lands reporting: 239 ( =the same as 2022).

FFGhost

If you therefore have a 0 per cent growth, that "in reality" means a 3 per cent growth, because you have substituted those who left with new ones.

LOL!

That’s pretty hysterical.

I earned 50,000 per year over the past 20 years. I have 0 in my bank account, “In reality” I have 1 million because I shouldn’t factor in the money I spent?

Maybe I can afford that villa in Côte d’Azur because, even though I have 0 in my bank account, the real estate agent will instead consider what I have “in reality”?

Nice try.

33

Where’s the 2023 Service Report?

by slimboyfat in

what’s keeping them?

this has got to be the latest it’s ever been.

maybe it’s the last one they’ll ever publish too, after dropping reporting hours for publishers ….

FFGhost

Yes they have decline across most of Latin America. I wonder what’s causing that.

The obvious answer is emigration / immigration.

JWs are joining millions of their compatriots in fleeing crime & poverty in Latin America and going to North America & Europe.

You can’t look at one country in a vacuum and expect it to make sense.

Organic growth is minuscule outside of Africa. New baptisms are an ever dwindling percentage of their numbers, and even a large majority of those are the teen (and even preteen) children of believers who are, frankly, too young to know what they are getting into. Most will likely get DF’ed or fade within the next decade or two.

Agreed that the JWs are doing comparatively better than other religious organizations but the growth is slowly, inexorably grinding to a halt.

Relaxing the rules can prop up the numbers for a few more years, maybe a decade, but the mojo is gone.

7

Has there been a change in how society counts publishers?

by Hellothere in

just made a fast check on yearly watchtower report.

bulgaria numbers 2022 was +1.

for 2023 they + 4. uruguay for 2022.

FFGhost

The numbers shown in the latest totals reflect the period September 2022 to August 2023.

The “no longer report how many hours” change took place in October 2023 so that change is not reflected in the published numbers.

The count of publishers can and does fluctuate for any particular country in any given years for a variety of reasons - pandemics, immigration, emigration, JWs fading or being DF’ed or dying in higher or lower numbers than in other years.

67

Thoughts on annual meeting “new light”

by FFGhost in

so, i finally saw the annual meeting video part 2.. this is the one with the “new light” on who might survive armageddon, vs. those who do not.. in summary, for those of you fortunate enough not to have to sit through it, it’s something like this:.

old light: once the “great tribulation” starts, that’s it for non-jws.

the “door of the ark” is closed.

FFGhost

Jackson said “we know you were hoping your loved ones would die before Armageddon”

This.

Also, how many times have you heard JWs rejoicing over the death of one of their favorite actors, singers, etc. “How wonderful, now he/she will be resurrected and can perform in paradise!”

So we’ve “progressed” from “our ministry is ineffective so I hope people die” to “the ministry is pointless so no need to wish for anyone’s untimely death.” I guess that’s progress, sort of.

7

renewed active cooperation of the WTG as an NGO at the UN

by Pedro in

there is news about the wtg's cooperation with the un as an ngo.. according to the un, every ngo is obliged by statute to actively work towards the goals of the un.. the historical case on the same topic, from 1992-2001, should be known.. at that time, the cooperation was exposed by a report in the british daily newspaper “the guardian” on october 8, 2001.. the wtg canceled its membership a day later under the pressure of outrage from some congregations.. many witnesses couldn't believe it and wrote to the un asking for information as to whether it was true.. the un response letter is still available on the un homepage.. here is the link to the un statement.

https://www.un.org/en/civil-society/watchtowerletter.

now it is time again!.

FFGhost

This is an Indian NGO and not connected to the UN

Ditto. Just by clicking the link and reading “about us” there is no connection to the UN at all.

22

Join JW's or DIE - soon!!!

by BoogerMan in

w72 10/1 p. 607 - "they (jw's) know that soon now all who are not true worshipers of jehovah (jw's) will be destroyed.".

how quickly half a century passes by!

2 peter 3:8 - "...one day is with jehovah jw.borg as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

FFGhost

They’ve really should run it past someone smarter before announcing it

Now there’s a low bar!