Posts by Konagirl

17

JW BORG does not have clergy-laity like Christendom! 😄

by BoogerMan in

(because they told us so in a wt!.

w71 6/1 p. 330 par.

10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.

Konagirl

"Konagirl, I was thinking more in monetary payment."

Thanks, Blondie. I was aware that they were trying to get by with the clergy-penitent thing in the court system. They're just hypocrites in the complete sense of the word, and in their world.

17

JW BORG does not have clergy-laity like Christendom! 😄

by BoogerMan in

(because they told us so in a wt!.

w71 6/1 p. 330 par.

10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.

Konagirl

“We do not have a paid clergy in our organization "Weasel Words" (2012)”

Yes, weasel words. They do have a paid “clergy”. Ancient kings of Judah, like wicked Ahaz, paid tribute to the Assyrians to keep his enemies, including the northern tribes of Israel off his back. The GB does the same thing, by paying “tribute” to the elder body in the form of power, status, dominance and the right to judge all who question the GB’s authority, their assumed label as a “faithful and discreet slave”, and their lying doctrines.

The GB has “enemies” that must be squelched, and they “pay” their clergy to do it.

17

JW BORG does not have clergy-laity like Christendom! 😄

by BoogerMan in

(because they told us so in a wt!.

w71 6/1 p. 330 par.

10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.

Konagirl

This topic came up a couple of years ago, so I thought I’d repost my comment on it, with a few additions.

Old English cleric and Old French clerc "clergyman, priest; scholar, student," both from Church Latin clericus "a priest," noun use of adjective meaning "priestly, belonging to the clerus"

So, this is the thing that I’ve noticed. The anointed, and yes there are genuine anointed in the organization, who are priests. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10) But the doctrine of men says they must not act as priests until after Armageddon. The apostle Paul stated that he was a priest, and he was certainly “active”.

“Nevertheless, I have written to remind you more boldly on some points] because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest of the gospel of God. God’s purpose is that the Gentiles may be an acceptable offering, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” Rom 15:15,16

So, an active genuine priesthood ended with the advent of the organization. Well then, does the elder body act as priests?

Mal 2:7 – “For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should desire instruction from his mouth, because he is the messenger of the Lord of Armies.”

Sure they do, except they are counterfeit priests acting on behalf of an organization. They guard its knowledge, they instruct the congregations, and they are the messengers for the organization.

They say this: “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth.” Wt 02/8/1

If they are “representing” the anointed, aren’t they active? This appointment is all bogus, but real. The elders have gone so far as not only acting as a priesthood, but as judges of the “royal priesthood”. And this genuine priesthood of anointed “living stones” are the temple dwelling of God’s Holy Spirit. 1 Pet 2:5, 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Mark 13:14; 1 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2

“If any of you has a dispute against another, how dare you take it to court before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the trivial cases? 3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels—how much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have such matters, do you appoint as your judges those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame! Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who is able to arbitrate between fellow believers?” 1 Cor 6

But the organization has other ideas.

Wt 02/8/1 - “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”

That's a pretty arrogant statement. I do believe that the apostle Paul would certainly challenge the elder body’s bogus authority, just as all genuine anointed ones should as well. This statement is like a slap in the face to the anointed ones.

“In fact, you put up with it if someone enslaves you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone is arrogant toward you, if someone slaps you in the face.” 2 Cor 11:20

The organization has made it very clear that the anointed are to remain silent. Why? Because if the genuine priesthood was active as a body (Eph 4:4) and join together under their Head, which is prohibited (see Wt Jan 1,2016 pg. 24, par 8); prohibited because it would be viewed as an act of elitism, even though this is exactly what the GB has created, as well as in the elder body...if the genuine priests were to gather, and are faithfully serving God under their High Priest, Jesus Christ by offering sacrifices of praise in truth (1 John 2:27; Heb 13:25; 1 Pet 2:5), there would be a great conflict of interest - of teachings, of what is truth and what is a lie. Why else would the Wt. even mention that the elders “authority” cannot be challenged? (Rev 13:5-7)

Active and faithful priests under Jesus Christ, would not allow the doctrine of men to be taught; instead, they would be teaching all that Jesus commanded them. (Matt 28:20) Only Christ’s teachings, the word of God, would be on their lips; and ultimately the power of not only the elder body, but also the governing body would dissolved. (Matt 24:48-51) An “organization” built by men and all of the doctrine needed to keep it up and running, would not exist.

As Jesus stated, we are to worship the Father in spirit and truth, not in a physical “mountainlike organization”. (John 4:21-24; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 4:6-10; Isa 2:1-3)

Acts 17:24-25,29 – “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.”

What is the foremost push by the organization, but to coerce their members to volunteer their time to build, construct, to maintain and clean what they’ve built, to donate to these buildings, all said to be “God’s house”…and this work is how one makes “friends with Jehovah”? Not according to scripture.

Acts 17:29 – “Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising.”

So yeah, the Wt. business/organization/religion does have a clergy, a massive “priesthood” of elders worldwide that are too arrogant (or blindly ignorant) to realize that God would never condone the replacing of His appointed priests/teachers/living stones of His spiritual temple built on the body of Christ. (Ezek 44:6-9; 1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 3:16-17; 2 Thess 2:3-4,7-10)

Matt 24:24-25; 7:15-16; Acts 20:29-31;1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,7, 4,11-12,14; John 16:2-3; Rev 13:15

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

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.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Konagirl

Is it so impossible to believe that Jesus was a messenger for God? A "chief messenger"/"chief of the angels"/archangel?

John 12:49-50 - For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Konagirl

@ joey jojo - Jesus having a voice 'like an archangel ' does not automatically imply that he is 'the' archangel, does it?

Well, that quote is from 1 Thessalonians 4:16, and it accurately says in the KJV:

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”

Interestingly, the YLT says, “because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first”

If you go to biblegateway.com and choose “1 Thessalonians 4:16 in all English translations”, you’ll see that not one of them says, “like an archangel”.

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Konagirl

Exod 23:20-23 - “I am going to send an angel (“messenger”) before you to protect you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Be attentive to him and listen to him. Do not defy him, because he will not forgive your acts of rebellion, for my name is in him.

So, they were to listen to this “angel”.

22 But if you will carefully obey him and do everything I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes.”

Who else at the time, but Jesus as the Logos, would be given the authority to guide the people in God’s word and to not forgive their acts of rebellion? (John 1:1; John 5:22,30) (1 John 5:20)

If God is truth, and Jesus is the word/truth of God (Logos) he would have God’s name in him…as an angel, as Michael the “archangel”, the chief messenger of God. (“who is like God?”)… and Jesus, God’s messenger/angel when he walked the earth ("YHVH is salvation"). (John 14:6;1:1,14; 17:17)

And it’s not the only time God told His people under covenant to “listen to him”. Luke 9:35 - Then a voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, the Chosen One; listen to him!”

To support the angel as Jesus Christ in Exod 23:20-23 who would bring God’s people “to the place I have prepared”, is another scripture:

“Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.” 1 Cor 10:1-4

There was no other angel/messenger to “to protect you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared”, except Jesus Christ as the messenger angel and Word of God.

Daniel 12:1 - “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise...”

Jesus is the great Shepherd of God’s people, His sheep. Shepherds protect the flock and save them from harm. John 10:2-4,9

“Then WAR broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.” Rev 12:7

“I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages WAR.” Rev 19:11

In Revelation 19:14, Jesus has his own army following him. So, are there two battling this war, two protectors of God’s people, with their own army of "angels", one called Michael and one called “Faithful and True”, who has the ability to judge? Many times Jewish names depict a divine assignment from God. No one questions the fact that Jesus is called, “Faithful and True” in this scripture. No one questions that in Revelation 19:12, Jesus has a name written on him that “no one knows but he himself”.

And no one questions that Jesus will give his new name to those who are victorious and stand alongside him in the battle against Satan, his demonic deceptions and his “angel”/messengers with him. Rev 13:12

“Angel” simply means “messenger” in both Hebrew and Greek. And it can be used to apply to people – Gen 28:12; John 1:51; Mal 2:7; Matt 11:10; 1 Tim 5:21

Jesus is also called the "Prince of peace" in Isaiah 9:6. In Daniel 9:21, and Michael is called "prince". So, does calling Jesus "Prince", degrade his position as God's Son?

"...And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

31

Loss of a Jehovah’s Witness who I considered a friend

by Fallen_Winter in

jw
friends

i have known a jehovah’s witness for approximately 15 years and i have considered her a friend although i know that jehovah’s witnesses cannot have friends who are not jehovah’s witnesses.

approximately two years ago, i was going through a very difficult time and i asked my friend if we could have bible study.

she said yes and we have been studying the bible since.

Konagirl

Fallen__Winter,

Hopefully you are sensing hypocrisy in what you experienced, and in the information/experiences that has been given to you by others here. That's really just the tip of the iceberg.

“In the meantime, when an innumerable multitude of people had gathered together, so that they trampled one another, He began to say to His disciples first of all, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.”Luke 12:1-2

The “leaven” is referring to anything - any teaching, directive, doctrine that lies outside of the word of God in Christ.

16

Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting

by Listener in

wally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.

he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.

i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.

Konagirl

This definitely was a stressful or embarrassing presentation by Kenneth Cook. Maybe because he was standing up against the majority view of the GB? Or standing up against Mark Sanderson, who said previously,

“When a person has been removed from the congregation, we stop keeping company, not even eating with a man. However, that does not mean that a Christian can not invite a disfellowshipped person to attend a congregation meeting. Therefore we do not need to avoid them completely.”

I noticed how beet red K. Cook’s ears were by the time he said,

“Since sin is still on the earth, the Elders will continue to remove unrepentant ones from the congregation”.

And he is meaning to "drive out what is bad".

1 Cor 5:11 - "But actually, I wrote you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister and is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person."

JWs gather together to "eat" and "drink" spiritual "food". (Matt 7:15-20) Considering their corrupt doctrine, who then should the individual "drive out", away from themselves, if not the "anointed" apostate lying leaders of the Wt, who call themselves "brothers" of Christ?

"Don't work for the food that perishes (“adjustments, new light”) but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal of approval on him."

"I am the bread of life," Jesus told them. "No one who comes to me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in me will ever be thirsty again.” John 6:27,35

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Konagirl

@FreetheMasons - Why is it so impossible to you that God would want to hang out with His own kids?

Why do you think it's impossible for the One who made the universe and everything in it to make a body to be able to visit the earth?

What do you think "God is love" really means?

Why do you overcomplicate everything?

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exod 3:14

Among the children of Israel, God did not walk with His children in the flesh, but He was with them in spirit.

“And let them make Me a SANCTUARY (tabernacle, holy place, temple), that I may DWELL among them. 9 According to all that I show you, that is, the pattern of the tabernacle and the pattern of all its furnishings, just so you shall make it.” Exod 25:8-9

That “pattern of the tabernacle” is heavenly, and explained in Hebrews 8:4-5 That is the template for the heavenly dwelling place of God in the Kingdom.

“To whom then will YOU liken God?
Or what likeness will YOU compare to Him?” Isa 40:18

“To whom will YOU liken Me, and make Me equal
And compare Me, THAT WE SHOULD BE ALIKE?” Isa 46:5

Do we dare compare God to a human? Should we wish for such a thing?

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” Num 23:19

“For My thoughts are not YOUR thoughts,
Nor are YOUR ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than YOUR ways,
And My thoughts than YOUR thoughts. Isa 55:8-9

God will be with His future children in spirit.

“Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the TABERNACLE OF GOD is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.” Rev 21:2-3

Another sacred dwelling place where God will reside in spirit; this time in the hearts of those God has chosen as His “temple” to serve the needs of all His children in the Kingdom. 1 Pet 2:4-10; 1 Cor 3:16-17; 1 Cor 6:19-20; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9-10; Rev 1:5-6; Rev 3:12; 7:15; 21:22-24

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Konagirl

@FreetheMasons,

It's not me that's blocking "the way". It's God's word, the scriptural truth that's blocking your way, your desire to fabricate your own delusions about God. 1 Cor 2:14