many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.
it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.
of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.
If JWs were free to shun or not shun, I would agree. But the fact is that JWs who don't shun their DFed friends and family risk being disfellowshipped themselves. That's coercion, not a free choice, and if there were a way to prevent the governing body from exerting this coercion on the JWs I would be in favor of it.
As to how it could be enforced, I have to admit that it probably isn't possible.
jws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
It's a crapshoot. Any 'proof' a given sect might offer a prospective convert can be met by another one. Every religion worth its salt has scriptures, prophets, and miracles to boast of.
"Oh, you've got a holy book?" Says the Catholic. "Well, I see your holy book and raise you an apparition of the virgin Mary!"
"Apparitions?" the pentecostal cuts in. "I see your phony apparition and raise you spontaneous remission of my aunt's brain tumor and my pastor dancing with rattle snakes while chugging a gallon of strychnine!"
And so it goes...
In terms of 'evidence' they are all on equal footing.
there are quite a few here who have been disfellowshipped for apostasy.. then there are those that have successfully faded.. why the different outcome?
are the ones that got df more out spoken?
or does the discrepancy lie with the elders?.
"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction."
"But if you disagree with us one tittle, you are evil and should be shunned!"
there are quite a few here who have been disfellowshipped for apostasy.. then there are those that have successfully faded.. why the different outcome?
are the ones that got df more out spoken?
or does the discrepancy lie with the elders?.
Since I hadn't been baptized they couldn't officially DF me, but I was shunned nontheless.
But the bottom line is that most elders are pragmatists. They don't care what you think because they know they can't really control your private thoughts. All they really care about is what you SAY and DO. You get DFed for smoking, not for thinking about smoking, just as you get DFed for spreading 'false doctrines' or openly questioning WT doctrine, but not for having your own private little doubts.
If the WT really cared about what JWs thought, shunning would become very problematic. How would they know if an apostate truly repented or was simply pretending to agree in order to stop the shunning?
When I was a JW I knew plenty of fellow sheep who, in private, disagreed with lots of things the org taught but they were prudent enough to keep those thoughts between them and a few trusted friends whom they knew wouldn't run to the elders with it. I can't know with any certainty, but if I had to guess I'd say that at least half of the JWs you know aren't as brainwashed as they would want you to believe, they're just afraid of being DFed.
from their history, it is evident that jehovah's witnesses are just another doomsday cult.. cults are run by autocrats.
on purpose they are ideologically fixated and they demand that their devotees hold the same absolute certainty of belief without regard for evidence.
the suspension of critical thought is encouraged and by focussing on the objectives of the cult belief in a like minded community, it gives both a sense of direction within a sort of ‘family’ and a hope of paradise perfection.. the leaders have everything to gain by controlling their followers; all the income goes in their direction.. democracy has strictly no part in a running cult.
If the GB allowed voting, I guess it wouldn't be an autocratic organization, so I wouldn't vote to dissolve it. However it IS autocratic, which means I don't get a vote.
i had a discussion with 4 jws today and they told me that jesus could not be tempted, ( they say that he would not be perfect if he could) but also they told me that satan tempted jesus in the wilderness.. can anyone clarify their beliefs please.
i like to give them a reasoned argument when i talk to them, but have never noticed this conflict of ideas before..
Satan TRIED to tempt Jesus, but our lord just didn't swing that way.
But, as annointed pointed out, the whole temptation story really is stupid. It just shows how ignorant these allegedly inspired authors really were.
i watched this movie for the first time today and i noticed some disturbing similarities with the personalities of jws.
the way they train their children and wives so they become robots to serve jehovah, but most importantly of all, to make their husbands and fathers look good and boost their egos.
if you haven't watched this movie or stepford wives, take a look.
Strangly enough I never experienced this in my congregation. All of my JW friends were hypocites who payed lip service (and field service) to Org during meetings and then did what they wanted the rest of the time.
One of my best friends actually seemed to believe in Jehovah and that he was going to be destroyed at Armageddon for his sinful lifestyle, but that didn't stop him from drinking, smoking, cursing, and dating.
My other best friend was even more cynical. She openly admitted to me that the meetings bored her to death and even though she was an elder's daughter, the only rule she followed in her life was "Thou shalt not get caught." Heh, and she never did...
banned from going to the kingdom hall..... a former jehovah’s witness has been banned from visiting any of the organisation’s kingdom halls in the uk – or face going to jail.. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/judges-jail-warning-to-former-117012/.
previous thread / discussion.
youtube channel.
JUDGE JAMES O'MAHONY: It is perfectly proper to have strong religious views but you should have regard for the feelings of other people.
If only he knew!
I agree that this man's actions only reenforce the image of the bitter, morally depraved and emotionally unstable apostate but I personally applaud his actions anyway. When I went apostate my calm, reasonable demeanor didn't do anything for my image (one elder even thought I was demon-possessed). By putting himself out there he has at least attracted some attention and hopefully planted some seeds of doubt in the congregation.
The problem with behaving respectfully and hoping that your ethical actions will speak louder than words is that witneses won't notice any of that. No matter how good of a person you seem to be in public, they will always just assume that it's an act and that you really are shooting heroine, having promiscuous sex, and conjuring demons in cabballistic circles behind closed doors. Trust me, in terms of reputation, an ex-jw has absolutely nothing to lose by behaving like this guy did.
i wish i had read this back when i was 18. it's an amazing take down of religious beliefs, the bible, and religion in general.
) a "reason"-able manner.take this quote, from near the beginning:.
when also i am told that a woman, called the virgin mary, said, or gave out, that she was with child without any cohabitation with a man, and that her betrothed husband, joseph, said that an angel told him so, i have a right to believe them or not: such a circumstance required a much stronger evidence than their bare word for it: but we have not even this; for neither joseph nor mary wrote any such matter themselves.
Yes, and it's one of my favorite books. Tom Paine is one of my heros and that book took a lot of courage to write back in those days. He didn't mince words and it cost him. From what I have read he became a sort of pariah after The Age of Reason was published, even Thomas Jefferson, who essentially held the same beliefs but was too prudent to publicize them, kept his distance from Paine after that.
their fundamental beliefs are much like jehovah's witnesses sans the paranoia, authoritarianism, stifling rules, and end-times enthusiasm.
you don't even have to become a bible student to be saved, you could be an idol worshipping heathen and still get resurrected in the milenium.
if i still believed in the divine inspiration of the scriptures, i would be a bible student.
You can still order the set of all six books from the Chicago Bible Students for $18.
Save your money and buy the Kindle version for $1.99.
Saved from what? Sounds to me like the same bible nonsense. To many of us ex-JWs, our leaving has nothing to do with doctrine. Some of us are not looking for anything bible related, nor religion related, not even spirituality related.
Well, I did leave over doctrine and, though I'm not Christian, I was interested in knowing if any ex-jws might have found the Bible Students a welcoming alternative. Some people need to believe and I would rather they be in a group like the Bible Students or some other religion that doesn't promote bigotry, superstition, and paranoid schizophrenia. My mom is never going to question her fundamental beliefs, but if she left the JWs and joined the BSs, I think she would be a much happier person
