Posts by Rainbow

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

Rainbow_Troll

How can there be any moral absolutes without a God? I have heard this question from so many theists. A better question is: How can there be any moral absolutes with a God? If God is the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong then there can be no moral absolutes. If God says murder your own child (like with Abraham), then this becomes the right thing to do in that particular situation. If 'right' is simply whatever God wills, then whatever God wills is right. 'God is good' means only that God wills what he wills. If God is truly good (in any meaningful, non-tautological sense of that word) then he is good because he obeys a set of moral principles external to himself.

No ethical theory I'm aware of is totally absolute. Even so, theistic morality has to be the most arbitrary ethical system conceivable. Utilitarianism, Confucianism, virtue ethics, social contract theory, all contain more absolutes than theist morality.

22

Absolute moral standards and fiction.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

not all beliefs are worthy of respect, but when we read a book of fiction in my mind it's easier to travel outside ourselves and our absolute moral standards.

fiction allows our imagination to be free.

i haven't read " fifty shades of grey" but i read " romeo and juliet" at school,and juliet was 13, romeo i believe was supposedly around 18 or 19.

Rainbow_Troll

While Romeo & Juliet is fiction, it was pretty normal for men in their late teens/early twenties to marry young teenage girls in Shakespeare's time. That was a case of art imitating life.

A better example might be the Marquis de Sade's writings since most of the behavior his heroes and heroines engage in would be condemned in almost any society or era. And yes, it is much easier to empathize (is that the right word? Maybe 'grok' would be a better term.) with evil people when we know they are fictional. Partially because fiction is a context in which normal social rules do not apply (at least in this country free speech has always been protected), but also because, in fiction, we get to experience everything from behind the bad guy's eyes. The nature of the medium makes it impossible to not identify with the villain to some degree.

10

Flirting or not?

by freemindfade in

.

Rainbow_Troll

None of those make any sense at all.

50

Eagerly anticipating the death of billions!

by stuckinarut2 in

surely someone who eagerly looks forward to the death of billions of people (including babies and children) is not emotionally healthy?.

yet, that is the key belief "happily" anticipated by witnesses.... food for thought?.

Rainbow_Troll

I don't think many JWs actually look forward to it, but they pretend to. I know that when I was a kid I feared armageddon - not only the projected catastrophes and mass death - but I also wasn't so sure I would survive either. So I was afraid, but I pretended I wasn't and acted as if I knew I would survive and inherit the kingdom and live forever.

This fear also drove me to witness to all the kids at my school. It was the only way I could justify befriending anyone. Otherwise why bother getting emotionally attached to people I knew would die horrendous deaths in the near future?

15

Attitude in Kingdom Hall vs. in church

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

so, today i went to a different church than the jw's for the first time in over three years.. it is a protestant african church.

my first thoughts: for people who are 'trapped in babylon the great (according to watchtower) these people really seem genuingly happy and sincere in their adoration for god.

what a freedom compared to the witnesses!

Rainbow_Troll

I did a lot of church shopping after leaving the WT and even though I never settled on one I don't regret the experience at all because it helped me to understand why some people do enjoy going to church.

For starters, the children were much better behaved than at any KH I have attended. They either stayed quiet or they went off to Sunday School and did their thing there. Compare that to the KH where the little kids do nothing but scream and cry (who can blame them, really?) and then, in response, their parents do something that has always seem inexplicable to me: they take the poor kid into the restroom and spank him, causing him to cry and scream even louder!

Another thing I noticed was that the sermons generally didn't last over 45 minutes and after that they would actually do other things like choir practice (where they teach you HOW to sing) and volunteer work (Christians actually helping the poor and needy? What's up with that?). There were also games, after school youth programs, and one church even had a singles night for anyone who wanted to enjoy the company of the opposite sex (Oh the horror! The scandal! )

The closest thing I experienced to a KH was a Mormon Chapal. The Sunday service there lasted 2 hours and everyone wore a suit; yet even this was better than the KH. The Mormons still believe in charity. They have activities for singles. And after the main service all the men get together in another room and have discussion about the Bible and theology where you can literally say anything and not be denounced as a heretic (at least that was my experience, though I've heard otherwise from ex-mormons).

Think: the Kingdom Hall is so boring that it makes regular church look exciting by comparison.

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

Rainbow_Troll

You would think that by now politicians would have learned that persecution only encourages religious fanaticism. It's history's most obvious lesson.

5

Promise Keepers

by schnell in

jw
friends

"real men keep their promises.".

i remember that bumper sticker from the 90s when i was a teenager in texas.

i didn't know it was attached to a kind of cult.. this article is 14 years old, and may well have appeared on this site before, but i'd like to reference it anyway because i see parallels, of course.. whatever happened to the promise keepers?.

Rainbow_Troll

Wise men don't make promises.

50

If "the Truth" is the truth, why are witnesses so scared of research?

by stuckinarut2 in

it is an often asked question i know, but it perplexes me.. if witnesses are so convinced that they have "the truth", why is the act of researching information from external sources so taboo?

didn't the bible itself tell people to "use their powers of reason" and also praised ones like the boreans for researching things they were told??.

seriously, if there is no doubt about the organization being "god's channel" on earth, and it alone having the "truth", surely researching would only enhance such 'facts'?.

Rainbow_Troll

LOL. Rutherford looks like such a carny huckster in that photo I couldn't help but laugh when I saw it.

It's a good thing that he was capable of appearing respectable and earnest when he wanted to, or no one would have been taken in by his BS.

31

Young People Ask: I’m Attracted to the Same Sex—Does That Mean I’m Gay?

by pale.emperor in

eurgh!

more patronizing and uninformed reasoning from the "experts" at bethel.

this time tackling the sensitive subject of those attracted the the same sex.

Rainbow_Troll

Some straight boys do go through a phase of homosexuality but this is usually only happens when they are denied access to girls due to stupid religious rules or because they live in worlds created by pervy fanfiction authors.

50

If "the Truth" is the truth, why are witnesses so scared of research?

by stuckinarut2 in

it is an often asked question i know, but it perplexes me.. if witnesses are so convinced that they have "the truth", why is the act of researching information from external sources so taboo?

didn't the bible itself tell people to "use their powers of reason" and also praised ones like the boreans for researching things they were told??.

seriously, if there is no doubt about the organization being "god's channel" on earth, and it alone having the "truth", surely researching would only enhance such 'facts'?.

Rainbow_Troll

Phizzy10 hours ago
I asked this of an Elder, who said he did research on non-JW Sites, like Wiki. I thought that's a start.
He then said that any whiff of a Site being Apostate and he was off. I said "Why ? if something is true, it doesn't matter if Satan the Devil himself told you it, it is still true, why be afraid of truth?".

A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God. ~ Charles Taze Russell

Rainbow_Troll

Posts by Rainbow_Troll

Phizzy10 hours ago