Posts by ThomasMore

45

which Translation Now?

by enoughisenough in

for those of you who still respect the bible, which translation/s are you using now?

why?.

ThomasMore

If I claimed to have an original manuscrpt ot the NT and it had God's personal name in it, others would claim I was a liar and it was a forgery.

If I claim that the personal name of God has merely been added to the NT by modern translators, then others will accuse me of being a man with no faith.

Honestly, I don't know if it was ever there or not. I just know that he is being referred to by many passages and that is enought for me. I won't be worked up either way.

I do however take umbrage at translators who massage passages in an attempt to establish a doctrinal narrative. They cannot be excused and frankly - I don't think they will.

38

Have JW `s ever faced the topic of Jesus having inherited Adamic sin ?

by smiddy3 in

according to the bible all humans male and female have inherited sin because of adam and eve`s disobedience to god .. god may have impregnated mary with a life force , however it was still sinful mary who gave birth to jesus after nine months in her body who is /was supposedly without sin ?.

mary must have passed on some of her sinful state to jesus having been in her womb for the past nine months , surely.

and there is nothing in the bible / scripture to say otherwise ?.

ThomasMore

What is perfection? It is not immortality. Does it in itself result in everlasting life? If Jesus had not been executed, would he have grown old? JWs say "no". Does being perfect guarantee that a person does not grow old? The scriptures do not say. Only in Adam and Eve's case did God say that allowing them to re-enter the Garden and eat from the tree of life would result in life indefinite. He was referring to what would have represented foregiveness - something he was not prepared to extend.

Apparently even perfect people need to be revitalized by God to continue living. Perhaps God would have continued to revitalize Jesus, but he was sent to die and that is what he did.

What about angels? The ones that sinned are no longer perfect. Will they eventually lose their vitality and die? Maybe that is why Satan had such great anger when he was cast to earth (according to Revelation). I can think of many reasons he might have been angry. No longer being allowed to be in the presence of God was probably at the top of the list. But he hated God- right? Apparently, but did being in God's presence "revitalize" him in some way?

The point is, Jesus was perfect but it did not make him immortal. Nor could he could fly, be invisible, have super-human strength, etc. It is unlikely that he would have been the best athlete, chess player or singer... But he was perfect, and it meant something significant.

So the only examples of perfect humans we know of are Jesus, Adam and Eve - and Adam and Eve are dead. Perhaps deciding on what perfection actually means is significant - more significant that what WTC thinks. After all, WTC doesn't even think Adam and Eve ever ate from the tree of life. They forgot that Eve told the serpent that "from all the trees we may eat" - except for the one designated as the Tree of Knowledge. Apparently, eating from the Tree of Life was just a continual promise that they could keep living and be revitalized in some way. They ate until they were no longer allowed to. Then they started down the road leading to death.

Perfection appears to only be the absence of inherited or deliberate sin which is lawlessness. Jesus, Adam and Eve were the only humans who had it, and only Jesus kept it until his death. What's all the disagreement about?

4

No Small Change.

by Lost in the fog in

https://fundraising.co.uk/2022/08/24/charity-commission-data-shows-mass-merger-of-over-1000-jehovahs-witness-congregations/.

ThomasMore

It has been common for JWs to buy buildings that were formerly houses of worship employed by other faiths. They re-dedicate the building to Jehovah and remodel. Keep in mind that the building is dedicated to the doing of Jah's will.

Google Menlo Park, CA to read about the first KH WTC took ownership of and sold. When the BOE objected, they DF'd some and deleted the rest. The KH was sold and now all the KHs are owned by the Trust.

JWs say that the GB has the righjt to do this. Well, read the account of Jezebel, Ahab and Naboth and then decide if this precedent isn't a near perfect fit.

Naboth had a field he cultivated. Ahab wanted it. Naboth would not sell, and said it was unthinkable to sell his hereditary possession (a gift from God). Ahab was despondent with unsatisfied covetousness. Jezebel employed 2 good for nothing men to make a false accusation against Naboth - a capital offense no less. Naboth was executed (stoned). Ahab took the field. The end for Jezebel and Ahab was gruesome and by divine mandate.

Now tell me that what WTC has done does not align perfectly with what Jezebel and Ahab did. If any elders object to the sell of a KH, WTC deletes them and may even DF them if they don't recant. WTC takes the money and the cong is left with nothing other than directions to a new KH further away.

Any apologists here? This is your chance to twist scripture and apologize for what WTC is doing.

5

Who is God's ONLY channel?

by BoogerMan in

australian royal commission solicitor: “do you [the governing body] see yourselves as god's spokespeople on earth?”.

geoffrey jackson - “ah, that i think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that god is using.".

october 5th 2022 daily text: “we also need to trust in the only channel [the g.b.

ThomasMore

Ding - Maybe it did. Good for you being able to quote Jackson's testimony. I have found that most JW's don't want to hear it. They are depressed over what they know to be the case, but powerless to do anything about it. Secretly they hope it will collapse and they will be free. I experienced that right before I left.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

ThomasMore

LHG - Yes, the 1995 change. It shook a lot of B'Lites out of Bethel. Most JWs won't admit the impact of it, but it was the beginning of their end. A GB member said in 1997 that Bethel was diligently working to down-size. Why?, because donations were not keeping up with expenses. Why? Because the R&F were curtailing their donations since the end was not imminent.

Since then, WTC has operated as a business in distress. They are trying to reinvent themselves and finding that the base of support is disinterested. Their many cries of "WOLF!" now fall on deaf ears.

6

Annual Meeting 2022: Geoffrey Jackson: Why Jerusalem mattersem Matters

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/pdtwglldsza.

ThomasMore

IBSA decided that Israel had no significance for future fulfillment of Bible prophecy when Russell took a group to Jerusalem around 1913 (I may be a year off) and found that the Jews were disinterested in his message. They were not going to convert en masse. Just a few years ago, Watchtower dabbled with the same idea and again decided that the Jews in Israel were even less enthused about the message that Watchtower delivered.

The Bible is clear that the "center of the earth" is Israel - whether you subscribe to it's message or not. WTC refuses to relinquish the role that they believe they have as being at the center of all prophecies. This tainted narcissistic narrative influences everything they do and teach. When they refer to Jerusalem, it is never in relation to the future, just the past.

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

ThomasMore

Free will definitely - but with the constant influence of our genetics and environment influencing us. For example, gravity is always exerting an influence on us, pulling us downward. We resist and it is actually good for us as exercise. We also use it to our advantage so it can be negative and positive. However, if we give in to it entirely, we lay down and die.

Some of our genetics and environment are very positive, and we can benefit from the positive influence. When that influence is negative, we can resist it and become stronger. If we do not, we may as well sign our lives over to others as we are swept along with their momentum. We still have free will but may lazily decide not to use it when it does not suit us.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

ThomasMore

We knew the org was in trouble when the generation teaching was changed. Any attempt since then to spin the explanation has done additional damage.

WTC is falling apart in huge pieces now. I sincerely regret my decades of support and apologetics. Maybe others on this forum will eventually see why WTC needs to learn to apologize instead of having their followers do it for them.

9

Is the Governing Body still considering giving an apology?

by was a new boy in

cricket australia apologised to child sex abuse survivors on monday.. https://supersport.com/cricket/news/d697602e-7832-45d7-9710-024493595f57/cricket_australia_sorry_for_historical_child_sex_abuse.

is it still foreseeable the governing body will consider giving an apology to anyone who has suffered sexual abuse in australia?

7 years ago.

ThomasMore

Uh....No

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

ThomasMore

The video is a condensed version of how that conversation always goes.