Posts by ThomasMore

7

was Judas there?

by enoughisenough in

from luke 22:14 .

so when the hour came, he reclined at the table along with the apostles.+ 15 and he said to them: “i have greatly desired to eat this passover with you before i suffer; 16 for i tell you, i will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of god.” 17 and accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, 18 for i tell you, from now on, i will not drink again from the product of the vine until the kingdom of god comes.”+.

19 also, he took a loaf,+ gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “this means my body,+ which is to be given in your behalf.+ keep doing this in remembrance of me.”+ 20 also, he did the same with the cup after they had the evening meal, saying: “this cup means the new covenant+ by virtue of my blood,+ which is to be poured out in your behalf.+.

ThomasMore

The accounts do seem to lean in 2 different directions. WTC would love to write Judas out of the account, as if traitorous persons could not drink the wine and eat the unleavened bread. Does it really matter? Ray Franz, Ewart Chitti, Leo Greenleas, Rutherford and others partook and the sky did not fall. Shame on WTC for even making it an issue. It is just another distraction from the real issues that Christians must contend with.

45

which Translation Now?

by enoughisenough in

for those of you who still respect the bible, which translation/s are you using now?

why?.

ThomasMore

Excellent Wonderment!

20

What are the odds that Armageddon is soooo close?

by Vanderhoven7 in

well judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure.

"surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of god that the lord jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" watchtower 1924 jan 1 p.5).

"the prophecy of the bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of christ dates from the fall of the year 1914.

ThomasMore

I once asked an automobile restoration specialist why he left his cars out in the weather, subject to the elements while they waited for him to put them into the schedule for renewal. He said that he could undo all the damage as long as he got to them in a reasonable timeframe.

Whether the end is close or not, I suppose God knows that he can undo all the damage to mankind (and individuals) when he takes action for the salvation of all. That is hard to accept when I see innocent people suffering unspeakable pain. However, I still accept it.

The average lifetime of seventy-four years is not a long time, except when one is enduring. I still have confidence that even the worst pains in life will pale in comparison to the grace that God will extend. I once endured a terrible ordeal and thankfully survived. In retrospect, I feel that it made me a better person, even though no justice was ever served.

If the end is close, so be it. If not, I think we will still be saved and appreciate later that our confidence was not misplaced, or lost.

I hope this doesn't sound wishy washy, but it is how I honestly feel.

28

Was Jesus the Messiah circumcised ?

by smiddy3 in

has this question ever been raised before by jehovah`s witnesses?

and what`s the significance, if any ?.

ThomasMore

Fulltimestudent - I appreciate your explanation. It gives me something to contemplate.

You may be correct but I would think that in the scriptural sense, perfection relates to lack of sin (lawlessness). I have never considered that circumcision made a male child less complete somehow. I feel this way because it was required by God for all male offspring of Abraham. As for his reason(s), there may be many, but one seems to be that it was an identifier, something that Israel was reminded of often in several ways.

Circumcision does not seem to be "redesign" as if an uncircumcised male was flawed in some way. There may certainly be medical benefits - I am not a doctor. I suppose that the separation/identification aspect means more to me than other reasons, but I am open to reasonable arguments otherwise.

In the meantime, the greater challenge for most males is how to properly use that organ throughout life.

43

Watchtower looses Norwegian Appeal

by Diogenesister in

watchtower has just lost its appeal in the norwegian courts over the withdrawal of the funding it receives from the government as an officially recognised religion.

the initial decision will now stand due to what the court termed 'exclusionary practices' which includes the witnesses barbaric practice of shunning minors, even by family members in their own homes.

the ministry of children and families have decided they are now no longer eligible for the state grant of 16 million norwegian kroner given to officially recognised religions.. the following is a statement has been issued, i have summarised if it isn't readable: .

ThomasMore

I venture to say that removing tax exemption from all religions in all countries would quickly help distinguish businesses from genuine religious organizations.

28

Was Jesus the Messiah circumcised ?

by smiddy3 in

has this question ever been raised before by jehovah`s witnesses?

and what`s the significance, if any ?.

ThomasMore

What is perfection?

45

which Translation Now?

by enoughisenough in

for those of you who still respect the bible, which translation/s are you using now?

why?.

ThomasMore

If I claimed to have an original manuscrpt ot the NT and it had God's personal name in it, others would claim I was a liar and it was a forgery.

If I claim that the personal name of God has merely been added to the NT by modern translators, then others will accuse me of being a man with no faith.

Honestly, I don't know if it was ever there or not. I just know that he is being referred to by many passages and that is enought for me. I won't be worked up either way.

I do however take umbrage at translators who massage passages in an attempt to establish a doctrinal narrative. They cannot be excused and frankly - I don't think they will.

38

Have JW `s ever faced the topic of Jesus having inherited Adamic sin ?

by smiddy3 in

according to the bible all humans male and female have inherited sin because of adam and eve`s disobedience to god .. god may have impregnated mary with a life force , however it was still sinful mary who gave birth to jesus after nine months in her body who is /was supposedly without sin ?.

mary must have passed on some of her sinful state to jesus having been in her womb for the past nine months , surely.

and there is nothing in the bible / scripture to say otherwise ?.

ThomasMore

What is perfection? It is not immortality. Does it in itself result in everlasting life? If Jesus had not been executed, would he have grown old? JWs say "no". Does being perfect guarantee that a person does not grow old? The scriptures do not say. Only in Adam and Eve's case did God say that allowing them to re-enter the Garden and eat from the tree of life would result in life indefinite. He was referring to what would have represented foregiveness - something he was not prepared to extend.

Apparently even perfect people need to be revitalized by God to continue living. Perhaps God would have continued to revitalize Jesus, but he was sent to die and that is what he did.

What about angels? The ones that sinned are no longer perfect. Will they eventually lose their vitality and die? Maybe that is why Satan had such great anger when he was cast to earth (according to Revelation). I can think of many reasons he might have been angry. No longer being allowed to be in the presence of God was probably at the top of the list. But he hated God- right? Apparently, but did being in God's presence "revitalize" him in some way?

The point is, Jesus was perfect but it did not make him immortal. Nor could he could fly, be invisible, have super-human strength, etc. It is unlikely that he would have been the best athlete, chess player or singer... But he was perfect, and it meant something significant.

So the only examples of perfect humans we know of are Jesus, Adam and Eve - and Adam and Eve are dead. Perhaps deciding on what perfection actually means is significant - more significant that what WTC thinks. After all, WTC doesn't even think Adam and Eve ever ate from the tree of life. They forgot that Eve told the serpent that "from all the trees we may eat" - except for the one designated as the Tree of Knowledge. Apparently, eating from the Tree of Life was just a continual promise that they could keep living and be revitalized in some way. They ate until they were no longer allowed to. Then they started down the road leading to death.

Perfection appears to only be the absence of inherited or deliberate sin which is lawlessness. Jesus, Adam and Eve were the only humans who had it, and only Jesus kept it until his death. What's all the disagreement about?

4

No Small Change.

by Lost in the fog in

https://fundraising.co.uk/2022/08/24/charity-commission-data-shows-mass-merger-of-over-1000-jehovahs-witness-congregations/.

ThomasMore

It has been common for JWs to buy buildings that were formerly houses of worship employed by other faiths. They re-dedicate the building to Jehovah and remodel. Keep in mind that the building is dedicated to the doing of Jah's will.

Google Menlo Park, CA to read about the first KH WTC took ownership of and sold. When the BOE objected, they DF'd some and deleted the rest. The KH was sold and now all the KHs are owned by the Trust.

JWs say that the GB has the righjt to do this. Well, read the account of Jezebel, Ahab and Naboth and then decide if this precedent isn't a near perfect fit.

Naboth had a field he cultivated. Ahab wanted it. Naboth would not sell, and said it was unthinkable to sell his hereditary possession (a gift from God). Ahab was despondent with unsatisfied covetousness. Jezebel employed 2 good for nothing men to make a false accusation against Naboth - a capital offense no less. Naboth was executed (stoned). Ahab took the field. The end for Jezebel and Ahab was gruesome and by divine mandate.

Now tell me that what WTC has done does not align perfectly with what Jezebel and Ahab did. If any elders object to the sell of a KH, WTC deletes them and may even DF them if they don't recant. WTC takes the money and the cong is left with nothing other than directions to a new KH further away.

Any apologists here? This is your chance to twist scripture and apologize for what WTC is doing.

5

Who is God's ONLY channel?

by BoogerMan in

australian royal commission solicitor: “do you [the governing body] see yourselves as god's spokespeople on earth?”.

geoffrey jackson - “ah, that i think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that god is using.".

october 5th 2022 daily text: “we also need to trust in the only channel [the g.b.

ThomasMore

Ding - Maybe it did. Good for you being able to quote Jackson's testimony. I have found that most JW's don't want to hear it. They are depressed over what they know to be the case, but powerless to do anything about it. Secretly they hope it will collapse and they will be free. I experienced that right before I left.