this one has been under investigation for a number of years.
today an inquest jury ruled that what had previously been determined to be a suicide was in fact a murder.
they named the woman's ex husband as a suspect.
How on earth was she allowed to be a State Trooper while still a JW?
And how the hell was she not disciplined by the Congregation™ for fraudulently collecting disability checks, and then fraudulently cashing in their retirement savings without her husband's consent to cover up her prior fraudulent activity?
my husband and i both have two older children living with our ex spouses - all four have been fully indoctrinated and 3 of the 4 are showing no signs of wavering.. we both want our children to leave the cult as soon as possible but we feel very limited and even powerless to help them.. we are both trying to deprogram ourselves and waves of terror and guilt still wash over both of us although it is getting better with time and distance.. but we sometimes wonder if we could be doing more to rescue the kids.. so, as an exercise to help us get our minds around what we can do to help (even little things) we have a new way we are trying to look at the situation.
i will try to explain:.
basically, instead of thinking in terms of 'religion' we are likening the situation to a family that has decided to eat an alternative diet that centres around complex supplements that we were both raised on and told would allow us to live forever.
When you are talking about a real poison, certain poisons can be ingested in very small quantities and have very minor effects. Cumulative and long-term effects are another thing... take lead poisoning, for instance, or asbestos in a building.
The fact remains, however, that it is illegal and immoral to knowingly poison someone, or to know that someone is being poisoned by another party and to not do anything to stop or prevent further poisoning. Even when a person voluntarily "drinks the kool-aid", and is of an age to understand the consequences of it, it would be highly unethical for someone who is duty-bound (like a parent) to protect that individual to ignore such a serious act of self-destruction.
So, what do you do? If you go into "rescue mode", you run the risk of frightening the children into doing exactly what your ex spouse wants. He's probably already primed them to watch for Apostate™ talk and behaviour, and to report back to him. So you have to prove to the kids that you aren't the raving lunatic Apostate™ that he's told them to expect.
Help the kids to keep their options open. Try to get them involved with extra-curricular activities at school, like band, sports, the school newspaper, "reading buddies" with the younger children; things that aren't going to raise a lot of red flags, things that will help them socialize with non-JW kids and form some non-JW friendships. Let them participate in field trips. While my parents didn't want us to sing the National Anthem at assemblies, if we were practicing the melody in music class, my parents expected us to participate, and we had to know the lyrics too - same thing with holiday music - it was part of our education, not part of the celebration/observance. [The other thing was they figured, so soon after 1975, that we were sure to be arrested any day now, so if we could play that music and know the words to those songs, we might not get thrown in jail! LOL]
Children in their teens are still in the midst of brain development, too - that's why more abstract concepts are introduced in the higher grades, including the skill of critical thinking. If your kids have to do a project on current political situations, have them examine the issues under debate, and get them to do some fact-checking on the news stories before they take sides in the debate. Get them to think about things that appeal to young people - like animal rights, women's rights, civil rights, and so on. Talk to them about social injustice in the world around them - a good example is how women are devalued in 3rd world countries. At some point, a light bulb will go on in their own heads, about how the WTS devalues women too. Use examples from other cults (like the FLDS) that treats women like chattel, and ask them what makes that belief system a cult. They'll make the connection without you ever attacking the WTS.
This is something that can take many, many patient discussions. It might be a good idea to develop a kind of outline of the sorts of topics that your kids might be interested in, with some pertinent facts. You'll have to do homework when they aren't with you, to be prepared for a rational and reasonable discussion that allows them the opportunity to express themselves while you lead the topic of conversation.
It will make for a much better outcome for the children if you help them to gradually come to their own conclusion, than if you try to ram it down their throats in "emergency mode".
just curious.
in my opinion it is the most importantr thing ex jws should be supporting right now.
the case is at a crucial point.
Paralipomenon writes:
the WT isn't even attached to the suit anymore.
That's news to me, and even more reason for me to have withdrawn my support from this endeavour. And, yes, I completely agree that the ruse perpetrated by Mr Hughes and his supporters in continuing to identify the WTS as a party involved in the lawsuit is nothing less than knowingly deceptive, utterly dishonest and thoroughly corrupt.
I am empathetic of his profound loss, of Bethany, of his family, of his former JW friends. His anger toward the WTS is justified for its role in those losses. However, none of us here deserve to be LIED TO by this man, have our sympathies played upon, and have our hard earned money pilfered from us through fraudulent claims. His suit used to be about making the WTS pay for manipulating people into martyrdom, but now that the court has disallowed that aspect of the case, all I see is a man with severe pain of heart, lashing out at any entity or person who has deep pockets to help him recoup his financial losses.
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, people were willing to help him set up a charity / trust fund, provided it was all done legally and above board. He refused to follow that advice, and unfortunately he lost a lot of support, and damaged a lot of trust that he had initially. He also attempted to run a scam at raising funds by offering "shares" in the lawsuit, which is - as far as I know - illegal in Canada.
Mr Hughes, I reiterate my deepest empathy for your loss. I wish you well. But I cannot, in good conscience, permit your recurring pleas for funding your cause, based on your record of deception, misdirection and - most of all - the way you and your colleagues berate and malign the users of this forum for making their own informed choices to keep their own money in their own pockets instead of sharing it with you.
according to the oxford dictionary - and this is a fact that has escaped the attention of the american dictionary companies - the greek origins of the word "apostate", originally meant a "runaway slave"..... how fitting!!!.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apostate.
indeed!
Frontal lobotomy
or bottle in front of me
both effective
i recently did a favour for one of my co-workers by exchanging a shift with her so she could have a day off when she needed it for a family event.. we worked together last night, and she was so excited about the family event that happened a couple of days ago - she really appreciated being able to go.
so this morning, at the end of our shift, she tells me that she is going to church before she goes home to sleep, and she is going to pray for me to have many good things from god for doing this favour for her.. i'm flattered that she thinks it was such a big deal, but i told her "no really, that is not necessary... you really don't have to pray for me!
" she was insistent!!
shamus, don't you DARE!!
I don't think I could survive a live kitten sacrifice. holy toledo, are you trying to kill me??
i recently did a favour for one of my co-workers by exchanging a shift with her so she could have a day off when she needed it for a family event.. we worked together last night, and she was so excited about the family event that happened a couple of days ago - she really appreciated being able to go.
so this morning, at the end of our shift, she tells me that she is going to church before she goes home to sleep, and she is going to pray for me to have many good things from god for doing this favour for her.. i'm flattered that she thinks it was such a big deal, but i told her "no really, that is not necessary... you really don't have to pray for me!
" she was insistent!!
I recently did a favour for one of my co-workers by exchanging a shift with her so she could have a day off when she needed it for a family event.
We worked together last night, and she was so excited about the family event that happened a couple of days ago - she really appreciated being able to go. So this morning, at the end of our shift, she tells me that she is going to church before she goes home to sleep, and she is going to pray for me to have many good things from god for doing this favour for her.
I'm flattered that she thinks it was such a big deal, but I told her "no really, that is not necessary... you really don't have to pray for me!" She was insistent!! She was going to pray for me today if it was the last thing she did. I was so good to her, that god needed to know about it and repay me for my kindness. Obviously there was no stopping her, so I thanked her, and repeated that she really didn't have to... but thank you for the kind thought.
I arrived home and promptly went to bed, hoping to sleep until about 4 pm as I was supposed to go back to work tonight. But I woke up at 1 pm with a nasty cluster headache in my left eye, and as soon as I got up to the washroom, was overcome with a cold sweat and had to make a dash for it... and immediately started throwing up off-and-on for the next hour. I felt so lousy that I had to call in sick. Then took some dramamine / gravol and went back to bed.
Next time someone insists on praying for me, I'm going to tell them about this and insist that they NOT. If this is how god "blesses" people who have prayers given on their behalf... well, thanks, but no thanks.
i am hoping to start an interesting and substantial chat on the topic of evolution and creation.. .
i have read up on the subject for some years now.
i have no doubt whatsoever that.... we were knowingly lied to.
I saw very clear evidence that the WTS had committed some serious breaches of academic integrity by twisting quotations from scholarly works to suit its agenda.
Alan F compiled an entire list of such offences related to the Creation book, and I felt that it was my responsibility to (a) completely dismiss anything the WTS ever taught in that regard, and (b) learn about evolution from the people who have studied it and compiled the evidence upon which their science is based.
me - jehovah?
who is jehovah?.
me - oh.. zac - are you happy with me dad for remembering jehovah.
Do you really want your son's indoctrination sessions with his grandmother to become part of the WTS's annual statistics?
I like the idea of introducing your son to the pantheon of gods. Roman, Greek, Hindu, Celtic, and so on.
You and your wife do need to establish boundaries with your MIL. You don't have to be mean about it, just say that it is your responsibility to teach him about religion. Stress that you want her to enjoy her time with your son, rather than feel compelled to preach to him. Provide him with story books that you've screened to take with him to grandma's house, and the rule ought to be that stories are ones you've approved, and that he's selected, not ones that grandma picks.
hope this isn't a repost.. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl0ovepbox8.
I wonder what they'd call a cross between a JW and a Mormon... because that will give you no birthdays, no Christmas and no drinking... plus annoying Saturday morning wake up calls at your door.
