Scully

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Posts by Scully

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  16

  Hellooooo! 6 years since i posted

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so... it has been six years since my last post.

  i wonder who still remembers me?

  a lot has changed and then again, a lot has not.... i'm still out of course as are my children who are doing very well.

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  Scully

  Hi AussieOz,

  I pop in now and again too. Good to see you.
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  7

  the martyr syndrome

  by eyeuse2badub in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the gravest sin a jw can commit?

  i’m not even going to consider the so called “unforgiveable sin” since no one knows what it is anyway!

  is it lying, cheating, stealing, pride, envy, being gay?

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  Scully

  Saying that you think their beliefs are bullshit. That's the one that will get you tarred and feathered and tattoo'd with a scarlet A on your head.
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  32

  READ: Watchtower's SCOTUS petition

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  on june 25, 2019 watchtower ny filed petition for a writ of certiorari in the u.s. supreme court.

  the society asks to reconsider a $4 million judgment against it in a california child abuse case.

  docket: https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/19-40.html .

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  Scully

  This issue of a tribunal system to hear grievances within the JWs was the crux of a legal case in Canada years ago. The court decided that due to the tribunal format wherein more than one individual heard the confession of a congregant, the ecclesiastical privilege rules did not apply to the JWs.

  Here is a more recent ruling against Watchtower: https://www.reminger.com/insights-reports-615.html

  McFarland v. West Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Lorain, OH, Inc., 9th Dist. Lorain No. 15CA010740, 2016-Ohio-5462

  "During the course of the litigation, McFarland sought the production of certain documents between the Congregation and the Congregation’s governing bodies regarding McFarland, her allegations of molestation and the alleged abuser. The defendants withheld approximately nineteen documents from their production, claiming that these documents were protected by the clergy-penitent privilege. (Id., ¶ 10.)

  "In examining whether the clergy-penitent privilege applied in this instance to each of the disputed documents, the appellate court began by noting that not every word authored or spoken by a cleric is automatically privileged and there is no protection for communications made for secular purposes – even when those communications were intended to be confidential. Ward, 128 Ohio St. 3d 212, 2010-Ohio-6275, at ¶ 15; Niemann v. Cooley, 93 Ohio App.3d 81, 88-89 (1st Dist.1994). Further limiting the clergy-penitent privilege is the fact that the privilege stems from a penitent’s desire to receive spiritual counsel, not a cleric’s desire to give it. See Trammel v. United States, 445 U.S. 40, 51 (1980).

  "In its examination of each of the nineteen disputed documents, the appellate court only withheld production of those documents where the defendants clearly satisfied their legal burden of demonstrating that the document served a religious counseling purpose rather than a secular one. For example, correspondence between governing elders and various congregations were not deemed confidential because they did not involve an instance of a particular penitent confiding to a cleric. (Id., ¶ 16.) Another letter, in which the author was drawing attention to the Congregation’s handling of a particular matter, was also not privileged because it did not pose any questions to the elders or request advice of a spiritual nature. (Id., ¶ 20.) Further, the court also refused to protect those documents involving persons unrelated to the McFarland dispute, finding no third-party privacy rights applied. (Id., ¶ 53.)

  "Finally, the court rejected defendants’ claim that the production of the disputed documents violated their First Amendment rights by exposing their “internal discipline procedures and beliefs regarding repentance, mercy and redemption to external, secular scrutiny.” (Id., ¶ 56.) The First Amendment to the United States Constitution and the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause prohibit states from enacting “laws that have the purpose or effect of advancing or inhibiting religion,” or expressing a preference for any one religious denomination. Varner, 500 F.3d at 495. The Clauses apply to limit the power of courts to hear suits whenever the questions of discipline, or of faith, or ecclesiastical rule, custom, or law have been decided by church judicatories.” Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. 679, 727, 20 L. Ed. 666 (1871).

  "In rejecting the Congregation’s First Amendment claims in McFarland, the appellate court noted that the First Amendment does not protect religious institutions from disclosing relevant, non-privileged information. Thus, because the documents were not privileged, there was no need for the court to interpret or evaluate the defendants’ religious beliefs or internal governance. In short, because the question of relevance was purely secular and “did not require the court to delve into religious law and policy” there was no merit to the Congregation’s First Amendment claims. (Id., ¶ 59, relying, in part, upon Howard v. Covenant Apostolic Church, Inc., 124 Ohio App.3d 24, 28-29 (1st Dist.1997)).
  
  "In total, the appellate court found that only four of the disputed documents were protected from production by the clergy-penitent privilege. The significance of this holding is that despite the generally-held belief that matters of church governance and policy are protected from production, there are strict limits applied to the clergy-penitent privilege and determining whether the privilege applies requires a careful, case-by-case analysis."
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  26

  Blondie's Comments (July 14 2019) Child Sexual Abuse Congregation Policies

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  love justice wickedness ((7-14-2019) may 2019 article comments from blondie.

  (ask yourself if you were able to read this article).

  does wt justice outweigh christian love?

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  Scully

  I had it on good authority that there were over 400 documented (in files at Canadian Bethel™) individuals who were known to be sexual abusers of children. The vast majority were never brought to justice, and were only dealt with at the Congregation™ level. At the time there were approximately 10 major District Conventions™ across the country. This equated to an average of 40 known-to-Congregation-Elders™-only child molesters at EACH Convention™. People wandering around, scoping out unattended or minimally attended children. Maybe volunteering in situations where under-aged potential victims would be volunteering, without parental supervision.

  How any JW could be aware of this possibility and still attend a Convention™ with their children is beyond me. I couldn't do it. In fact, even before I understood the scope of this problem, just knowing about how offenders could be exempt from Judicial Action™ without two eyewitnesses to the abuse to corroborate a report, I would not put my children in harm's way like that. Even if I could have watched them like a hawk, I would not want to support an Organization™ whose need to be beyond Reproach™ in the eyes of The World™ was more important to them than the safety of the precious children in attendance at Meetings™ and Conventions™.

  They make me sick.
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  15

  Obituaries

  by truthlover123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a letter was read this week from the platform stating that publishers should not scour the obituaries and respond to the websites for condolences messaging.

  apparently, it is not being taken too well by family and friends and the pubs are asked to refrain from sending a message if they are not friends or family of the deceased.. i recall one sister used to visit grave yard sites and if she saw individuals there, went over and "consoled" them by offering the tract on death and your loved ones.

  i cannot even think of how i would have received her, being in my space and thinking she could do that.. apparently they have graduated by reading the obits..

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  Scully

  This has been SOP for decades.

  Even as a kid, I was appalled that some JWs had the audacity to intrude on the grief of others, just for an opportunity to exploit their vulnerable emotions at a very inopportune time for the grief-stricken.
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  40

  The Watchtower Tract Society doesn't print Bibles?

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after reading a few comments here, i thought it was time for me to get a copy of "the silver sword" for my own occasional research and occult practices.

  so i thought i would see if jw.org would offer a way that i could purchase a printed copy (not digital) of the new world translation.

  as i browsed, it occurred to me that i might also like to have a copy of the... what was it?

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  Scully

  Nathan,

  Have you checked any 2nd hand book stores in your area? Almost every time I visit one locally, I find some form of WT printed material in the "spirituality" section.
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  29

  Funeral Fashion

  by ThinkerBelle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a funeral to attend for a non jw family member and the jdub family member reminded me that i should not wear black.

  for the life of me, i can't recall where this belief came from in jw teachings and i'm born in.

  is there something in print or is that just a personal opinion belief?

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  Scully

  But black is so slimming, especially when paired with black hosiery and underwear!
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  9

  When did jws start viewing the "worldly" as bad associates?

  by nowawake14 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any of you that had been in the organization for decades are welcome to answer.

  really, who started this craziness?.

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  Scully

  My parents became JWs in the early 70s. It was drilled into me to avoid getting close to Worldly People™, and to only have Friends™ In The Truth™. Because of our lack of JW pedigree (2nd or 3rd generation), we weren't readily accepted by those who were Born In™ or had a decades-long history with the cult. It seemed like we were always inviting people over for dinner or driving people around for Service™ or a to do shit jobs around the KH that nobody else wanted, and it was very rarely reciprocated. It was like we had to go through some kind of probationary period - for how long was anyone's guess.

  It was a very isolating, and it's no wonder I suffered from depression and anxiety from all these emotional rollercoaster rides.
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  28

  26 Years Later

  by Victor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm one of earliest adopters of the internet in discovering the real history of the watchtower.

  back then it was the wild wild west with newsgroups being the primary sources of information.

  then came watchtower observer, freeminds, and all the other sites that followed jwd was one of the later sites.

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  Scully

  Hi Victor

  I remember you from the Philia email group, which I joined in 1993. Nice to see you’re still around.
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  10

  We owe our children honesty, integrity, and the TTATT.

  by Fognomore in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in my waking up i have come to a very emotional and costly conclusion.

  i have been waking up for about 2 years.

  the greatest gift we ( i ) can give our children is honesty and ttatt.

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  Scully

  Those were precisely the same emotions Mr Scully and I went through when we were in the process of leaving the JW belief system.

  The clincher for us was reading in the Aid Book™ and the Insight™ volumes under the definition of the word LIE.

  It said words to the effect that "it is not necessary to tell the truth to individuals who are not entitled to it." Think about that for a minute. Who are they saying is "not entitled to" truthful information? The average JW thinks about opposers who want to incriminate them or the Organization™. But clearly, it could also refer to the GB withholding honesty from average JWs. We had noticed, multiple times in fact, where the Publications™ conflicted with one another (flip flops like who among those who were killed at Sodom and Gomorrah would be Resurrected™; or wholesale rejection of higher education, then allowing for it, then rejecting it again; saying Armageddon™ was Just Around the Corner™ for exactly how many decades now?).This plus so many other things made it abundantly clear that JWs were not purveyors of The Truth™, they never were and they never would be.

  We were humble with our eldest, who was old enough to understand the ramifications of leaving. We told him that we had been fooled by people who didn't have our best interests at heart, and that we were going to start making our own decisions instead of allowing the JWs to influence us. It was a great feeling to let go, and get out as a family.