Posts by SEAKEN2001

31

Hey There ! All You Disfellowshipped Ones!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is your anger with the jw religion due mainly to the fact that you have been df'd?

is it possible that persons who post here who are not disfellowshipped can feel as angry as those who are being shunned and who are therefore being effectively gagged?.

is the df'ing policy of the wtbts the main reason that ex-jw's seem to go all out to get other witnesses out of the org?

SEAKEN2001

Angry? Absolutely!

But mostly dissapointed. It has always been hard for me to accept that some people just cannot think? When I found out I was fooled and that my own thinking ability was being controlled I was very disappointed. I have since been very understanding of cult members and society in general. We are all easily fooled and those of us who are eager to trust are more likely to be abused. I believe that we are all suceptibile to mind-control in every sector of society. It is up to us to be skeptical and think objectively. So I have mixed emotions all the time. Sometimes I am very angry at the JW's because of the control the weild over my family and other families. Other times I am deeply saddened that many JW's just cannot break through the fear and will likely forever look to the WTS for their answers. Sometimes I am delighted that I had that experience and think that I may be able to someday articulate that experience in ways that can help others seeking to free themselves from cult mind-control.

I don't know if I have accepted anything. At this point I question everything and do precious little "deciding" about so-called "spiritual" matters. If it were not for my wife's continued devotion to the Society I would likley not seek any further association with the group called Jehovah's Witnesses. I prefer to associate with those who are more reasonable in their approach to life and knowledgable about local and non-local events that may shape our future. I am currently prevented by my own fear of losing my wife from pursuing my own interests in the socio-political arena. That makes me impatient and a little depressed.

So, yes, lots of emotions, one being anger. But also trying to be optimistic and patient and content. My life could be a lot worse and I am still mostly pleased with my own life path. I would like to help those who have not been so lucky. I am just trying to figure out how.

Mulan's comment above is very close to me. Sharon was my mother. The WTS treated her badly and those who claimed to be her brothers and sisters proved they were liars. That makes me sad. But I see through the actions and understand that it is the fear in these people that makes them act that way. it is my hope that they will eventually feel guilty enough to question their acts and begin to break through the fear. I will help any who might eventually get to that point. I don't hold any particular anger toward any of the JW's for what happened to my Mom. I am angry and have shown my anger but I have not directed it against any individuals. This same type of crap goes on in many different societies and religions. We are victims. I see no personal benefit in lashing out at the individuals involved, such as my Grandma and Uncle, or the so-called elders. But I will not excuse them either. They are guilty of horrible acts of unkindness right along with the WTS and countless other representatives of that destructive cult.

Maybe you will suggest I am in the sadness stage. Whatever. I tend to believe there is some merit in trying to seperate the process of recovery into various steps. But I don't think we can clearly place anyone into any particular "stage" or classification. I see myself as exhibiting symptoms of all the stages at any time. I think I will carry the whole experience with me all my days whether I accept it or not.

Sean

12

Following Threads where I have posted

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i just figured out today how to bypass the login sequences every time i reply to a thread.

but i am still miffed that i cannot follow the threads i have posted in without hunting through all the topics, some of which i may have no interest in.

is there a way on this board to track my own posts?

SEAKEN2001

I just figured out today how to bypass the login sequences every time I reply to a thread. But I am still miffed that I cannot follow the threads I have posted in without hunting through all the topics, some of which I may have no interest in. Is there a way on this board to track my own posts? It seems a very poor design of the software to not allow you to sort threads according to your own interests. I am used to more flexibility in this regard and a little disappointed that this board is so hard to navigate. Maybe I am just lost and you can all direct me in how to use the board more affectively?

If this is as good as this board software gets, can we start talking about upgrading to a better system? I'm sure more would participate if it were better organized. Delphi, as one example, has free forums that are much easier to navigate and they support sorting and even blocking out. I'm sure there are other alternatives as well in the free forum arena. Why are we using this particular system? Is this preferred by the majority or has that never been considered? It's only a suggestion on my part and I will continue to participate reagrdless but I just was wondering if this has been discussed already and why this format was chosen. Or maybe it was not discussed and the person who set it up just chose what was available to him/her. That's fine. I appreciate the hard work of the forum sysop and don't wish to suggest that they have a lousy board. The discussion forum is invaluable and is a wonderful resource. I only object to the format of the software and wonder if it can be updated or changed.

Sysop? Comments? Anyone?

Sean

501

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp in

following the link given by kent,.

i have several observation to make:.

(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).

SEAKEN2001

Mulan pointed me toward the link at the Guardian. I read the article and it was generally well done. Hopefully it will be a start for more media coverage. Here's a copy of my note to the Editor, just reminding him/her to be more precise about the WTS doctrine.

-----
I read your story on the Watchtower (Jehovah's Witneses) and their involvement with the UN as an NGO. Overall the column was correct and the reports are accurate. However, you made a technical error when stating the Watchtower's position with respect to the United Nations.

Quote:
"The Watchtower Society has been denouncing the UN and its predecessor the League of Nations for 80 years, believing them to be a world empire of false religion, predicted in the Book of Revelation. "

This is incorrect. They claim the UN to be the 'image of the scarlet colored wild beast' in opposition to God's Kingdom. This beast, the UN, is understood to represent the world governments and they are said to be under the influence of 'false religion'. It is the rider of this beast, Babylon the Great, that they label 'a world empire of false religion'.

It is strange, as stated by the UN representative, and hard to understand. But it would be best to correctly state the Watchtower's teachings on these matters, therefore adding to the weight of your news story. Please post a correction, perhaps as a perenthetical statement from the Editor, so that this article can be better used to inform the ignorant of the facts.

Thank you,
-----

Sean

501

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp in

following the link given by kent,.

i have several observation to make:.

(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).

SEAKEN2001

One question that occurs to me is:

Can anyone access the DPI library of information and use this information in their own works WITHOUT signing up to be an NGO?

Can the WTS claim that "we only signed up so we could use the information to keep the world informed about the real meaning of these things"?

Does an NGO get priviledged information that the general public or media outlets cannot get?

Also, this question:

It is not clear in the report about contributions in India that these are monies contributed BY THE UN. Is this the case? Is there clear proof that the WTS in India is a prime receiver of monetary aid from the UN directly? When I read the report it seemed to me it was comparing the amounts these organizations were recieving in general, from all foreign sources. Where do we read that this report is limiting it's scope of scrutiny to UN donations only?

Great thread everyone! I hope to compile a report of my own that I can use to assist my wife to see the reality of what the WTS is involved in. Many good suggestions have been shared here. Thanks alot.

Sean

22

Emergency !!!! Can Any One Help?

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

this plea for help goes out to anyone in the st louis mo area.. okay this is the situation, my father and sister are both disfellowshipped and have been sharing an apt.

since my mom and dad have been separated.. my dad was being kind to my sister who was in need after her divorce.. she was the typical jw just, high school education then depending on a man.

dad agreed to let her live rent free till jan when she graduates from dental school.

SEAKEN2001

Ranchette,

I feel for you and am sorry for the family problems you're putting up with. Glad your sister found some nice people who came up with a solution.

You made the comment that it's not your parents responsibility. Why? Since when does the WTS say you have to turn your back on your kids who are in need because they are DF'd. The last I remember it was acceptable to care for the needs of family members. You just are not supposed to share in "spiritual" fellowship. Has this changed or is this the local hard line stand being taken. Or maybe your parents take this stand in spite of the WTS's allowancw of a more balanced approach. Either way I am sorry you and your sister have this burden.

Sean

23

We are forgetting something.

by MrMoe in

jw
friends

those of us who are no longer jw's were jw's at one point in time, correct?.

we all know for a fact that 95% of jw's do care - so much - that they endure mosquitoes, heat, cold, fire ants, rabid dogs, loss of personal income, spend their free time dedicated to helping others, and much much more to help assholes who hate them to help save their lives.. please - do not carry anger towards these people, because we were once like them (blind.

) it is not their fault they are wrong - because at one point in time we were all like them.

SEAKEN2001

Good topic. A few comments.

Moe, as I see it, your view of JW's is based primarily on your own experiences in your own community. I used to say something similar to your comments in this topic when my experiences led me to believe that JW's in general were good people and only a few were jerks. Now I know that my beliefs about JW's in general would have been quite different had I grew up under different circumstances. Thus the opposing view of others here. They have experienced JW's quite differently than you. And to say that "mostly youths" are leading a double life cannot be qualified. The youths just haven't learned how to protect themselves from the conduct police. That comes with time. The best that you can do is draw conclusions about the JW's in your community that you have interaction with. They will not be representative of JW's in general.
It is likely that your community has a particular "feel" to it and people of like mind tend to live there. If you were to take a cross section of the general community, not just JW's, and compare that to a cross section from another community, you may draw conclusions about whether your community is "good" as compared to another. But it may not be very accurate and probably not fair to those who may match your idea of good who live in the other community. The JW's you know may be generally "good" because they live in your community which is generally "good". It doesn't really matter that they are JW's, even though the WTS likes to use that type of reasoning to prove that they improve peoples lives. But where is the data to prove that is the real case? The WTS does not collect such data becaus they know the results will not be supportive of their particular brand of "goodness".

<Esmerelda:
You show me a truly happy JW and I'll show you someone who is so in denial about reality that they also probably still believe that Mickey Mouse really lives in Disneyworld.>

Well, Es, I was a truly happy JW. It was only a matter of circumstance for me. I did not know of the corruption and had not been exposed to the reality of the WTS. It wasn't that I was in denial about it. I just dodn't KNOW it existed. When the circumstances in my family changed I became aware of the reality I had not known of before. I was unable to remain a happy witness, or a sad witness for that matter, and left. But while I was happy as a witness I do not think I was in denial. Just uninformed, ignorant.

This does not work in my case. I am given no room to question anything under any circumstances. They assume I have an alterior motive and such a backdoor approach is fended off with "I don't want to talk about that". I can occassionally say something like "I'm glad you like that movie (or music or book, whatever), but did you notice that it was not produced by the Witnesses? What does that mean? How can anything good come from "worldly" people who are condemned to death? But any referrences to their publications or the Bible turns them off immediately. Perhaps you are not in the same "class" as some of the rest of us, the "apostate class". They are instructed by their elders to not discusss anything "spiritual" with me and will not allow me to do it. But, if you're an unbelieving husband, or a co-worker, even a ridiculer, they will allow you to address them in the manner you propose. But we "apostates" have to take other approaches.

To Tallyman,

I agree that a frontal attack may be helpful at times but usually not in person, until after a crack in their paradigm has already been opened. Once a "doubter" gets here you may be able to take your approach, depending on the personality of the individual. But I agree with Moe and the others that a "honey" approach is probably better with your "loyal" family members and friends. You run the risk of them cutting you off completely if you attack their precious beliefs head on. Be careful and thoughtful.

Sean

501

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp in

following the link given by kent,.

i have several observation to make:.

(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).

SEAKEN2001

Dungbeetle,

After wading through the entire thread I can't remember who is and who isn't recommending an "organized" effort using this information as a weapon of sorts against the WT Society. I did not intend to evade the issue by generally disagreeing with "some" but I also did not waht to single out MSIL, who is the only one I can remember who supports the 'organizational' approach. The fact is, I agree with MSIL in sentiment. I only wanted to state that it is unfair to berate others for what they are doing that may not be in line with an 'organized effort. I am squarley behind you and MSIL and hawk, MacH, MA, and all the rest who are taking action and actively supporting any positive action in behalf of our loved ones still under control of the Borg. It may be that this particular hypocrisy will affect my wife or mother-in-law in a way that starts them on the path of questioning the Society. I don't know. I guess I have created a protection within myself that will not allow me to get too hopeful and that expects less of a result than I would like. I wish you all the best in whatever approach you take with this information in order to help free your loved ones from this hypocritical organization.

Sean

501

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp in

following the link given by kent,.

i have several observation to make:.

(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).

SEAKEN2001

It really should surprise no one here that the WTS has once again been found guilty of duplicity. That has been their MO all along. It really comes down to a recognition on our part that we have all been fooled. Many of us were once willing to ignore the obvious conflicts in order to loyally support our precious F&DS, our connection to God.

So, are we going to be disappointed when we present this evidence to our friends and family still in the Borg and they dismiss the evidence as concoctions of disgruntled apostates? I think we can expect this. What I hope for is that at some time my loved ones will come to a point where they experience a cognitive dissonance on their own and begin to question their beliefs. Maybe this connection to the UN will jog some into this personal crisis of conscience. We really don't know what might trigger this in any individual.

Some here are hopeful that this will be some sort of "bomb" useful in our warfare against the enemy, the WTS. I would caution you against holding that hope. It is not realistic. There is no affective "plan" or mobilization of efforts that will bring down our enemy. As has been stated, they are a crafty lot. The efforts of many who contribute here have already been instrumental in helping individuals break free from the mind control and begin thinking for themsleves. The victories are won at the individual level and are largely due to that individuals own efforts to break free. We will assist them as they discover the cracks in their precious beliefs. But we may never be instrumental personally in leading then to a crisis situation within themselves.

I support the efforts being made to expose the WTS in their association with the UN and am personally delighted to see that there is clear evidence to implicate them in this deception. I hope it will move some who are already questioning the JW's to take another step. But I am not buying into the idea that we have to band together to be affective in some kind of war strategy. That is not reasonable and my experience tells me that things just don't work that way in real life. There are any number of approaches that all of us will take with our own family and friends and they may or may not work. But none of us should be made to feel we are somehow damaging a "cause" or some supposed united effort to bring down the WTS. I hope that those who may be suggesting such things will stop and take a more objective look at reality and stop harping on those who are otherwise taking action in a positive attempt to affect a change.

Sean

14

Bill Bowen on Radio September 30

by Kent in

jw
friends

i got this message from jim moon:.

talk show host meria heller (herself an ex-jw) has put out the following reminder of her upcoming radio program.

you can tune in on the internet at http://www.meria.net/.

SEAKEN2001

Skally,

I got the same error message. But I think it's because the link is not up yet. The program does not air until 1:00 PM Eastern Time. Thre pointer is in place and should go live at that time. Not sure, but this seems to be what is happening.

Anyone else more familiar with internet broadcasting who can shed light on this?

Sean

36

Watchtower Exploitation Begins!

by metatron in

jw
friends

over the weekend, various publishers/congregations were.

instructed to go out in service for a "special work".. some congregations received letters from circuit overseers.

emphasizing immediate use of old awake magazines with articles.

SEAKEN2001

I have vasilated from pitty to anger to outrite disgust while reading this thread. I would like to come accross as balanced and objective but it is hard for me to hold back from showing my disgust at the weak constitution of so many of you so-called "witnesses". Have you just shown up? Are there any of you who really know what you are talking about? Stand back and look at your "organization" and then tell me you are really comfortable being an apologist for them. I think what you are doing is salving your conscience. You are afraid to act on it! Why not speak to your leaders honestly about the "troubles" you are having? Because you know damn well you'll get the "axe" and be labelled at least a trouble-maker and probably DF'd as an apostate. You guys make me sick. Hiding behind your own opinions of what JW's are all about. You know good and well that the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" will not abide by you. They reject you and consider you to be a blight on their "clean" organization. They will not treat you with kindness and understanding.

Will you continue to close your eyes? Will you continue to run in fear? Will you really stand with those who have lost loved ones and are suffering the trauma imposed upon them by this tragedy? Do you really want to convert them to your religion so that they may get "life" or are you too afraid to listen to them and their point of view and accept that they are as right as anyone else?

The truth is the WTS DOES exploit people. Every day. Every hour. Closing your eyes to the facts will not change them. Get involved in exposing them before you speak in your own behalf. Act for justice! Stop appologizing for narrow minded exploitive organizations that won't even come to your aid when you ask them. That's pitiful!

So much for being objective. I'm angry at all of you who close your eyes to the horrors of others in order to protect your own reputation. To hell with your reputation. Stand up and be counted along with those who support justice in spite of the pain and suffering it causes us personally.

Sean