i have read tom cabeen's excellent work "does god work through an organization" which i wholeheartedly support.. a while back a jw elder sent me a document which he had written entitled "the christian congregation and the twentieth century" in which he tries to prove that god is using an organization on earth today.
i am requesting your help in refuting these claims.
the most significant claims of this document i will present in several parts on this board.
Rex,
By jove, you've got it, Seeker.
Bully for you.
Thanks. As I said, I really did move beyond WTS teachings about Christianity, as you can see. So the next time we disagree, I hope you will appreciate it is just that: a disagreement, not a lack of understanding of your point-of-view.
Logical,
No, I was being serious. As someone then pointed out, this is a doctored photo apparently. Fine. But as we see in rock formations and other natural occurrences, the most amazing similarities can appear randomly. The human brain is expert at finding patterns, even where they shouldn't. I was relating this to the repeated claims that the Art Department is hiding images in the Watchtower. It's more likely that the human brain sees images that appear randomly during the process of reducing a 2' x 3' painting down to a 2" x 3" Watchtower illustration.
See! I hope this begins to put to rest the stories about the vast majority of 'hidden images' in the literature. Humans see images even in clouds of smoke that form randomly. You can find whatever you want to imagine -- just look hard enough. The mind will take care of it for you.
i thought this post really summed up the wt very well.
and i agree-- for all you lurkers out there we can only feel pity for you as you try so hard to hold onto a pipe dream-.
if you ever needed a reason to take a serious look at your belief system this is it.. .
Anyone saying that the WT joined the UN is a liar.
The WTS is not allowed to join the UN since they are not a country. The only thing they are allowed to do is align themselves with the UN as a NGO. That's what the WTS did. Just like all the other churches.
i have read tom cabeen's excellent work "does god work through an organization" which i wholeheartedly support.. a while back a jw elder sent me a document which he had written entitled "the christian congregation and the twentieth century" in which he tries to prove that god is using an organization on earth today.
i am requesting your help in refuting these claims.
the most significant claims of this document i will present in several parts on this board.
ISP,
Agnostic secular humanist, actually. I merely answered the questions based on the Christian perspective of what the Bible actually says, as opposed to what the WTS says. My response did not describe my personal beliefs. I was just trying to help.
i have read tom cabeen's excellent work "does god work through an organization" which i wholeheartedly support.. a while back a jw elder sent me a document which he had written entitled "the christian congregation and the twentieth century" in which he tries to prove that god is using an organization on earth today.
i am requesting your help in refuting these claims.
the most significant claims of this document i will present in several parts on this board.
POINT 1 "Who could read the message of Christ to the seven congregations (Revelation 2-4) without concluding that the individual members were united in a communal or organisational sense?"
It is clear that the most organized the first century Christians ever got was on a congregation basis, which is merely a local group of like-minded individuals who decide to get together to discuss their faith. There were messages sent back and forth between congregations, and while the apostles were alive they gave advice, but that's it. Similarly today, Christians certainly can get together in small groups or congregations, but beyond that there is no command.
POINT 2 "it is very significant that the figurative expressioons applied to the congregation, although numerous, almost invariably emphasize that the individual Christian is part of a structured group. In the imagery of scripture the Christian is likened to a soldier in an army (2 Timothy 2:3) a stone in a temple (1 Peter 2:5) a slave in a household, a member of a family, a member of a priestly order (1 Peter 2:9) and part of a worldwide brotherhood (1 Peter 5:9). The point of all of these analogies is surely lost if we are to assume that the individuals are united by nothing more than shared beliefs. Furthermore, it can be demonstrated that the same language is applied to a latter day congregation."
This shows lack of faith in Jesus as the head of the congregation. All those figurative expressions are just that: figurative. We are not talking about a literal army, or priesthood. Just as the literal temple was replaced by the spiritual temple, these are spiritual structures. Jesus can gather together his followers in a spiritual sense, unifying them himself. He does not require humans to do the organizing for him, for that would usurp his role.
in response to norm norwig's usual wide brush of generalization,that sweeps in all religion as causing all the problems of the world....... a prophet finds honor at last.
by cal thomas.
syndicated columnist.
With all due respect, Rex, I'll not take your word on Muslim ideas, for you are hardly in a position to be impartial and fair.
I have, however, read the Qu'ran. Have you?
in response to norm norwig's usual wide brush of generalization,that sweeps in all religion as causing all the problems of the world....... a prophet finds honor at last.
by cal thomas.
syndicated columnist.
Rex,
Let's recognize some very inportant points differences. Fundametalism in Islam is extremism to us, for a central teaching of Islam is that all humans must be converted who live, or they will be killed. The public 'jihad'.
Christian fundamentalism is nowhere close to this, since the Bible has no central teaching to compare to that. We leave judgement in God's hands and depend on His mercy and justice, not our own.
What difference does it make to me if I am to be killed by a follower of Islam or by your God? Either way, my choice is convert or be killed. Not much of a difference from where I stand.
However, I'm not convinced that Islam teaches what you say it does, or at least in such stark terms.
in response to norm norwig's usual wide brush of generalization,that sweeps in all religion as causing all the problems of the world....... a prophet finds honor at last.
by cal thomas.
syndicated columnist.
Netanyahu makes some good points, but he can hardly be expected to be impartial in this instance. If you quoted Arafat on the same subject, I would point out the same problem.
The fact that some people don't want America to go to war over this, but would rather just the terrorists and their supporters be brought to justice instead, doesn't make them any less American than those who want to lob nukes.
The fact that some soldiers fighting on behalf of America happen to be Christian doesn't negate the fact that Christians have been guilty of terrible atrocities throughout history.
Life is not black and white, Rex. Some Christians have done wonderful things, some have done horrible things, both in the name of Christ. Some Muslims have done wonderful things, some have done horrible things, both in the name of Allah. It's no wonder that some of us hate to see religious fanatacism -- no matter what God the fanatics worship.
perhaps you recall the instance in the bible where samson made a wager with the philistines that they couldnt guess his riddle.
as it turned out they wheedled the answer out of him by his fiancee, but the point is that they had a wager.
since the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that we are not living in the last days of this system of things, and that this world is not facing anything remotely like the biblical apocalypse, at least not any time soon, in the spirit of such antagonism, i would like to propose a similar wager.
There is another benefit to this monster thread: It has kept You Know confined here, instead of spreading his nonsense all over the board. Never would have thought it possible to limit his drivel, but keeping him busy here has done the trick.
