Posts by Seeker4

23

yoga class........meditation

by Mulan in

jw
friends

last night i went to my first meditation class, conducted by a nice young man, teaching a yoga-type meditation.

it is my first venture into meditating, and i thought i would share a couple of interesting points.

i was with an old friend, who also happens to be an ex dub, but only out about a year.

Seeker4

Mulan,

I was just drifting back through some of the posts when I came onto this one. I laughed, because I started regular yoga classes several months ago. It has been absolutely the best thing for me.

I'm 49, but in good shape. I've had some back trouble, and decided that among the many changes this year would bring in my life would be to get into the kind of physical condition I want to be in for the remainder of my years. I decided to go back to the weight I was in in my 20's and to do an exercise that would combine strength and stretching work.

Yoga did all of that, and what is even better is that yoga in itself can be a moving form of meditation. I suffer from what a friend and I call "grasshopper mind" - which if you tried to meditate, you probably understand quite well! My mind seems to jump from thing to thing.

Yoga provides a focus for the mind with brain wave results quite similar to what you'd get in seated meditation. And it's lots more fun. I also find that I am now totally pain free in my back for the first time in five years. It just makes your body feel wonderful. Plus it builds some really nice looking muscle - if you saw the Oprah, you saw what I mean. There's this thing called yoga butt - and it beats Buns of Steel! Yoga produces this really toned dancers body.

And I had to laugh at 6's parody. God, what stupidity we expressed as Witnesses! Let me tell you sometime how I was at a friend's birthday party a few weeks ago and had my first tarot reading!! Funny stuff. And those demons seem to be about as helpless as God has been, so I wouldn't let them worry any of you much.

Intorspection - Enjoy your posts, but would enjoy them better if you made shorter paragraphs. Just a suggestion.

Enjoy the meditation - and to all those who asked about the yoga, I totally recommend it. It is rigorous, and yet makes your body feel just wonderful. It's purpose is really to just simply keep the spine and the rest of your skeleton healthy - and when your whole body is limber and loose and relaxed, the feeling is just fantastic.

By the way, I'm within five pounds of my goal, my waist is back down to what it was in my 20's, and I have a 33 year old friend who thought for the longest time that I was pretty close to her age. So there's my yoga testimonial!!
Enjoy,
S4

16

COs, SL, Mulan, AlanF, Max,Tina,UB,Zev,&New...

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

this is from seeker4, whom some of you may remember from h2o.

have been quiet for several months, and not even reading the boards.

too busy.

Seeker4

Dedalus!!! My god! Didn't expect to hear from you here! This is great.

Sorry I have been such a sorry-assed replier as far as email is concerned. And I honestly haven't looked at a JW discussion board in months and months. I think you wrote me the last time

Books: Children's book is now in the hands of the artist. My work is complete on it.

First novel - Manuscript was completed in early April, and sent out copies to two editors. One is back in my hands, the other I pick up Saturday. Then I go through and do the final edit before it goes out and seeks a publisher. This process seems to have taken forever. Ahghg!!!! It drives me crazy. But I was grateful to have the help of the editors as they are both professionals, and they are doing it out of friendship and love for me, at no charge. It pays to be moderately good looking and immensely charming.

Second novel - the one about a man who leaves the Witnesses - is now the novel I'm working on with the writer's group. I read a chapter yesterday, as a matter of fact. We have a new member of the group, an attractive woman who teaches writing at Dartmouth and writes like a goddess, and I wanted her reaction to the much-rewritten first chapter. I've got a bunch more done.

Newspaper and magazine writing continues apace. And I have actually started writing a lot of songs. Completed eight or nine good ones in recent weeks.

Other than that, I've been wreaking havoc and chaos left and right, experimenting with this wonderful thing called life and enjoying myself no-end. Read my reply to Englishman. A lot of remarkable new friends and a few new lovers, more or less.

So. There it is. And yourself?? Married? Do I get invited to the wedding? Still in Boston? Teaching? We MUST meet. I have a young Witness writer friend who has just moved to Boston with his wife to go to college. It might be interesting for you to meet him. I'll try to get a phone number and other details.

Fill me in.
S4

4

Send InThe Clones.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i've been reading all about fridays denouncement of joelbear, along with other rabid posters who condemn anyone who has a sexual relation ship with anyone that they are not married to, and then only in the manner that is approved of by the wtbts.. isn't it crazy?

think about it, what are the most basic of human instincts?

i know that one is to procreate and another is to survive.

Seeker4

My god, Englisman! I leave for half a year, and you're still raving about sex!! Good for you!

I have in recent weeks become quite good friends with a woman who is what some might call a radical, feminist, lesbian. We have had these most amazing discussions about sex and homosexuality, etc. This has been quite an experience for someone raised a JW - and very enlightening. Imagine a former elder being the confidant of a lesbian's love life?! Ah, life continues to be full of signs and wonders.

But this has really opened my eyes to what you write about how the Society (and most religion in general) essentially has corrupted our view of what is really a very natural and wonderful process.

And an interesting side note: This woman's last straight romance was with a JW!!! Really. She was in graphic design for advertising, and this was a guy working in the same field who she dated for a year and a half. She told me that he came back from a district convention one time and told her that they couldn't have sex anymore!! Ah, pricked the poor soul's conscience - (sorry for that use of words!) but not for long, she told me.

Good to hear your voice.
S4

15

what did you do first

by nytelecom1 in

jw
friends

what did you do first?.

contributing to the 4/10 of the world worldwide work.

going out in service

Seeker4

Mulan, how are you?

I also turned in time for a couple of years even though I never went house to house during htat time. Actually, when the change came out in the Watchtower in 1995, about the generation, even though I went out in service some after that, I NEVER offered any WTS literature after that point. I felt more like I should be apologizing for what we'd been telling them over the years!

I was always talking with people about the Bible, Jesus, etc. just in normal conversations, but to be honest, most of this was really anti-Witness, and this during that two years before I officially told the brothers I wouldn't be handing in any more time.

Contributions? They probably went first.
S4

16

COs, SL, Mulan, AlanF, Max,Tina,UB,Zev,&New...

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

this is from seeker4, whom some of you may remember from h2o.

have been quiet for several months, and not even reading the boards.

too busy.

Seeker4

This is from Seeker4, whom some of you may remember from H2O. Have been quiet for several months, and not even reading the boards. Too busy. But checked today, as Bill Bowen had been in touch and I heard the lawsuit had started.

Bill - sorry I haven't returned your call. Was in the Southwest when it came, and since I got back I've been out straight. I'll call later today. This has been on New Hampshire Public Radio already up here.

Loved that post on COs and DOs - brought back tons of memories. Best for me: I really liked and worked with a lot of good brothers over the years, but Terry Barnes (now pion. in Burlington, VT) and Frank Hans (now going blind and living with family in Texas) were among the best. Perhaps the best of all was Ray Hayes, now an elder in California, and a guy with a totally realistic view of the WTS.

But so many of the other names were familiar: Conti, JR Brown, Wes Benner, Dennis Raftopoulis, John Crispin, Angelo Catanzaro, Clayton Peace, Sam Hurd, Walden Chin, Henry Caspar, and tons more. There is a new CO - Joel Friedmann. How is he doing? I like Joel, but always a bit suspicious of these young anointed ones. And a lot of "little gods" out there - including some on that list - Angelo and Walden, for sure. And I remember Walden when he was a Bethelite hustling pay jobs on the side and pinching pretty sisters when he visited the congregations. Enjoyed his liquor as well. But then, that's no sin, eh?? Lots of strange bros., and the 'special diets' - what gives? Any of you out there ever have Claude Burkett serve as a CO-sub?? Great guy in some ways, but man, what a nazi he could be!

Paul Illingworth - was a friend at one time, and we worked together at several DCs. But the comment about being full of himself - dead on. Loved those talks on the 'greek words.' Appealed to the pseudo-intellectuals among us, for sure!

Two of the worst, and there were lots of really poor traveling brothers, were Clayton Peace and Wade Paine. Wade is just a sad example of all that is wrong with this arrangement - from insulting the friends from the platform to weird little seating practices at the meetings for field service. There was another terrible brother who served in Vermont in the early 70's, just a complete jerk at times, but I can't remember his name. But with all these men I also remember other things - like Clayton really took a liking to me when I was a kid (and he hated kids), that Wade was really sympathetic when we were dealing with a serious issue, and the brother that was a total jerk in the 70's really helped my wife when she had to stop pioneering because she was pregnant with our second baby. But I think we all remember that there was both good and bad stuff.

This is also a quick shout out to some of the new folks on the board who may be from the New England area, like Zev. Drop me a line at the email address.

SilentLambs - good job. Max - love your posts. How's your sons career going? Tina, UB, Alan - miss you. I was actually in Colorado in July - but not for long.

Mulan - remember those emails we exchanged about reconnecting with an old friend? Well, I did. This has been an amazing year.

Please feel free to drop a line, anyone who remembers me.
S4

3

Hi! and Update From S4

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

just wanted to drop a quick line to all my friends here and at h2o.

i've been silent for quite a while now (for which no doubt many of you are thankful!

), and thought i'd update you guys on a couple of things.

Seeker4

Just wanted to drop a quick line to all my friends here and at H2O. I've been silent for quite a while now (for which no doubt many of you are thankful!), and thought I'd update you guys on a couple of things. Miss you all.

I'm finishng a rewrite on a first novel in prep for sending it out via my agent. I also have a children's book in the hands of a well-known artist, and hoping the best for that as well. Of greater interest to you all may be that I have started a novel about a man in his early 40's who leaves the Jehovah's Witnesses, is DF'd for asking questions and refusing to shut up, and what happens to him afterwards.

The story's premise is what would happen to a person if everything they'd built their life on suddenly collapsed from under them. The controlling idea is that a meaningful life has to be created from within the individual, not impressed on one from an outside source like religion, and that happiness then comes from learning how to express that meaning through one's work, creativity, relationships, etc.

Considering that this brother is a subcontractor for a Witness builder, and his wife is a very loyal sister, all you ex-JWs will understand the ramifications of his leaving the WTS and getting DFd. Considering that many of you have lived this story, and expressed your feelings about it so well here on the Net, I want to thank you for your help. Thanks also for letting me work out a lot of the ideas in this story here on H20 over the past 14 months or so.

I am part of a very small professional writers group that meets for several hours every two weeks. You all would be fascinated by the response I've received to the first 40 pages or so of the manuscript as it's read aloud to the group. The Watchtower "culture" is a pretty amazing place to people who have no idea what it's all about. Everyone in the group has been appalled by the Witnesses' practice of disfellowshipping, and more so by the shunning.

One of the writer's said that his family has been discussing the Witness idea of "current or present truth" and thinks that one of those terms ought to be the title of the book. I have other ideas in mind.

What do you think? "Present Truth" a catchy title? He said that it is simply mind boggling for him to think that a religion would urge it's members to keep up with "present truth" or that "current truths" could end up as beliefs no longer held, or that people could acutally ask, "were there any new truths on the convention program?" Any other title suggestions?

What else can I tell you about the book? I've got it totally outlined, and nearly all the scenes created. There's plenty of action, a little violence, a riveting judicial committee hearing, some fine Witnesses and a few who are jerks, some fine ex-Witnesses and a few who are jerks, a lot of questions, quite a few tears, a very sad death, plenty of good music, good food, some wonderful sex, and a relatively happy ending, (afterall, I'm still an optimist, though a more realistic one now).

All the writing means I'll be dropping in only very occasionally here and at H2O. I am quite literally working about 12 hours, seven days a week to get all this stuff done and still make a living. I will check here for the next few days to see if anyone drops by to say hi back to me. Plenty of you have helped with the development of the ideas and plot for this book, and I thank you all. Feel free to email me personally about the book if you'd like. I check that every few hours. You may have some helpful suggestions.

There are also a few major media projects still in the works like those that took so much time over the past year, revealing the REAL truth about the WTS. Hell, if the Governing Body was upset about the bad media they got LAST year, they must be tearing their hair out (what's left of it!) this year! And they haven't seen the worst of it. The year's only two and a half months old. When the book comes out (and I'm confident it will - there's the optimist again!), maybe you guys can help me get the word out and we'll turn this into a bestseller and give them another media nightmare. AND, I'm really fair to the WTS in this. You really only have to describe the way things actually are in the WTS to simply terrify the normal human being!

Please drop me a line if you feel like it. I haven't heard from Uncle Bruce or Tina or Dedalus for a long time. Tina was supposed to send the bio. Please do.

Also, I'll be at the PEN New England conference at Dartmouth this coming Saturday, March 17, if you're interested in attending and would like to meet up. It's an all day affair. Email if you want more info.

Love to you all, and I really do miss you, but I must get on with my life, and this is an important year for that in a lot of ways.
S4

9

Living - in the New World

by trevor in

jw
friends

leaving the tower was easier for me when i stopped and contemplated what the future would hold if the jws were right after all.

everlasting life on earth under threat of death if like adam, eve the devil, the israelites in fact most of the human race, i made a mistake at any time.

to live in a world run by strict elders who have been elevated to princes seemed a worse fate than death.

Seeker4

Oh, yeah, you hit on a rough one here. I sort of pictured myself slipping off to some part of the world nobody wanted and sneaking in Jimi Hendrix and Stevei Ray Vaughn when they got resurrected, and maybe Charlie Parker and a few of my favorite dead writers - kind of a little "freethinker's paradise." I was thinking maybe I'd even try to get Marily Monroe in there, you know...

One of the great things about leaving the Witnesses was not having to worry about all that nonsense anymore. It was nice to be able to love all those things freely and openly that I'd felt guilty about liking for so long.

S4

18

Guess what I just got called?

by LDH in

jw
friends

talking to my cousin just now, she has been inactive for years.... she told me she just started going back to the meetings, hard!!!

i asked her a one-word question--"why?".

she immediately flipped out on me, and said because she doesn't want to be responsible for her children's death at armageddon (of course).

Seeker4

Among the hardest people to understand are those who are out, but want back in. The mental programming and guilt are very powerful tools. I know people who have been out for 30 years, and who have no intention of ever going back, but who will tell me that they still think JWs have "the truth." Ugh.

Just wanted to let you know that in the past week or so I've reconnected with four women who I knew as a JW. They are in their 20s and 30s, and three out of the four have left the WTS. One still goes, but has a VERY independent attitude. I'm seeing this more and more, and all the things people have said here about the Internet and so on are major factors. There will be no slowing this huge exodus.

S4

4

DATELINE update - and reqeust for help

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

my first post here, but many of you know me from h2o.

thought i'd spread this post around to a few boards.. just had a nice long talk with a producer at nbc's dateline.

he is 99 percent certain that they will be doing a segment on the witnesses.

Seeker4

Thanks, but I think they are very definitely looking for a non-Witness for this, and not an ex-JW. There's the challenge.

S4

4

DATELINE update - and reqeust for help

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

my first post here, but many of you know me from h2o.

thought i'd spread this post around to a few boards.. just had a nice long talk with a producer at nbc's dateline.

he is 99 percent certain that they will be doing a segment on the witnesses.

Seeker4

Hi everyone,

My first post here, but many of you know me from H2O. Thought I'd spread this post around to a few boards.

Just had a nice long talk with a producer at NBC's Dateline. He is 99 percent certain that they will be doing a segment on the Witnesses. He expects filming to start within a few weeks. So for those who have inquired here on-line or have emailed me inquiring about this, things look good. If it does film, it will be a few months before the segment airs, so we'll have something to look forward to this summer.

Most of the people for the show are lined up, but the producer is looking to interview an expert on religion and ethics about this issue(JWs, sexual abuse and pedophilia), preferably an academic with a real understanding of the Jehovah's Witness culture, but not with an ax to grind.

Does anyone know of an academic who has written about the Witnesses, who would know and understand the unusual dynamics of the Organization, but that is essentially neutral? That doesn't mean they haven't been critical or favorable about the Watchtower Society in their writings, but just that they've been fair.

No one comes quickly to mind for me. But perhaps you know of someone who has done a paper about the Witnesses, perhaps a theologian, sociologist, philosopher, who would have some insight into the insular world of the Watchtower and would be able to put that into an overall context and perspective, comparing it to other groups and religions.

If you have any suggestions, post them here or email me. The sooner the better. And don't hesitate to spread this post around to any other sites that might be helpful.

Also, just received a packet from Peter Smith with copies of his Witness articles in the Louisville Courier-Journal. The online articles were great, but if you can get copies of the actual paper, it is truly outstanding. HUGE front page spread with photos, then TWO FULL PAGES inside with tons of pictures. Journalistically, this is as big as it gets in a paper.

Thanks for all your help.
S4