Maximus was a former CO or DO (the latter I think) with LOTS of Bethel connections. Several years ago I had an hours-long telephone conversation with him. Very interesting, very bright guy.
Not sure who Dino is. Seems he posts here occasionally, even just a few months ago.
I've also heard many a CO and DO express some issues with the WTS - privately.
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Seeker4
JoinedPosts by Seeker4
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INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
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Seeker4
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INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
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Seeker4
James,
Yes, and that was back in the 1990s. I know the sister in particular was very disappointed in how she was treated. But, they're still JWs!
Downsizing Bethel - that we know for a fact.
Now downsizing COs and DOs - very likely.
Gotta be a lot of very unhappy people trying to make the best of these situations, unhappy people from the upper echelons of the WTS who have had the opportunity to know what the organization is REALLY like from an insider's view.
Could be very good news for those of us who are out. And now we have so many more good boards that people can find!
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INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
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Seeker4
Thanks, Outlaw. Always look for your laughing dog.
I also agree with the list of indications of dissatisfaction that Metraton listed on Page 2 of this thread.
I've had some pretty convincing verifications in PMs from people that I trust that there is going to be some changes in the CO arrangement - not so sure about the DOs. There has been a lot of speculation on the boards about this, but I'm not sure just what the changes will be exactly.
That having been said - if a lot of the COs and DOs are taken off the road and moved to congregations to serve as Pioneers or Special Pioneers, there are going to be a lot of upset people. IF the post Iloowy translated is factual - and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was - then this downsizing or ending the CO arrangement is a dangerous move for the WTS.
I've had friends who were at Bethel helping with the construction at Patterson. They had been their five years, and the Society met with all the long time workers like that and asked them as a group to consider making Bethel their lifelong career. Then, after they decided that's what they'd do, just a few months later, the building work was winding down and hundreds of the workers were sent home, including this couple! To say it was a bit disheartening and a shock is minimizing the effect.
This will be a huge shock for these often ambitious men and women, and when a couple like this comes into a congregation expecting the congregation to help take care of them - well that is not a little disturbing to a lot of the friends. Some of these couples have given up any semblance of a normal life expecting the WTS would take care of them into infinity. This will be a huge let down.
As the ex-CO in my post quoted above noted, the WTS seems to be struggling with finding a sense of direction. Decisions like this in such a volatile time for the organization show that even eight years after that discussion, the WTS is floundering worse than ever,.
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INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
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Seeker4
Mary, no, I think that's a reference to posters on the Spanish forum. -Probably Maria in the original!
I just re-read my post on the ex-CO, and it's interesting how much of that is happening. I think more would have happened, but over the last 8 years here in the US we've had some scary times: 9/11; Bush getting us into never-ending wars in at least two countries; a terrible energy situation here; horrible economic times; etc.
My ex-wife, still a JW, refers to all of these things as imminent signs of The End - and that may be why some doubting or troubled JWs have stayed in. But many. many others have left during those years - including Iloowy.
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Interesting calculation for the start of the GT and Christ's return
by Philippus79 inhi friends!
i found this quite interesting blog which gives evidence that the gt is about to start in autumn 2008 and jesus would return in 2012. at least for those who are still interested in bible chronology and prophecy it might be worth a read.
these guys seem to have no connection to ron weinland or the cog people, looks more like jws/exjws.
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Seeker4
Last year it was supposed to happen on 7-7-07.
EVERY calculation like this has failed.
Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results??
I'd say that also could be the definition of stupidity.
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INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
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Seeker4
First let me clear up a couple of things:
I'll totally vouch for iloowy. He is an old friend.
I was never Exelder on H20, I was always Seeker4. That post was just Exelder copying my original post and putting it in a new thread. I'm actually glad to see that here on JWD, as I couldn't retrieve it from H20 and I haven't read it for years. That is a full and accurate account of my conversation with the former CO, who, as iloowy noted, was a man of considerable integrity. I have no update on his situation following that conversation several years ago.
I can't vouch for the account from the ex-brother in Spain, but I have to say it would not surprise me if it was accurate. I'll bet there are a lot of fed-up COs and DOs, not dissimilar to my CO friend. And I wouldn't be put off by the curse words - given a chance to unwind, that wouldn't be unusual at all. I've heard it.
This is a fascinating post. Thanks for the translation, iloowy, and very glad to see you posting here, old friend!
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wasn't studying the revelation book "wonderful"
by booby infrom a yahoo e-mail group
as we start the new book in our book study i am already missing the exciting time we had studying the revelation book.
though many in our bookstudy who were studying for the first time found it tough in the start, our book study overseer made it very easy.
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Seeker4
abbagail,
Yes! That section where the bowls poured out by the angels or whatever being equated to the resolutions from the conventions in the 1920s or 30s was as pathetic as anything the WTS ever tried to dream up. Not even the JWs themselves took any note of those resolutions!!
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wasn't studying the revelation book "wonderful"
by booby infrom a yahoo e-mail group
as we start the new book in our book study i am already missing the exciting time we had studying the revelation book.
though many in our bookstudy who were studying for the first time found it tough in the start, our book study overseer made it very easy.
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Seeker4
The last time they went through the Rev. Climax book at the Book Study, my favorite comment came from a very faithful, active, smart sister in her 80s.
When she heard, in a loud, very disgusted voice, she said: "My god, why are we going through that thing again!!??"
Her comment was the general consensus of JWs that I knew. This comment sounds like it's one of those sisters for whom every talk, every assembly and every convention is wonderful, and they just get "better and better." Even Witnesses want to strangle those kind of sisters !!
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Post your percentage opinion: How many JWs REALLY . . .?
by AuldSoul inour kingdom ministry, april 1992, p. 4, par.
7. keep spiritually strong, stay clean for jehovahs service.
7 the benefits of these meetings are multiplied when they are combined with good habits of personal and family study.
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Seeker4
I tried as an elder, often a Pioneer, and with three kids and my own business. It was awful at times. It was more frequently a failure than a success, and I was as earnest and sincere about it as anyone.
I think your figures are pretty dead on. Most family studies could be deadly boring.
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The tipping point
by JeffT infrom wikipedia: "the term tipping point describes a point at which a slow gradual change becomes irreversible and then proceeds with gathering pace.
it is derived from the metaphor of a rigid solid object being tilted to a point where it begins to topple.".
has the watchtower reached such a point?
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Seeker4
The JWs reaching a tipping point is an interesting idea.
We certainly have a growing body of experts - many, many former Bethelites and elders, and now Gilead grads like A@G and MTS grads. I also see a lot of still active but not really believing JWs on here.
I know for certain two elders who recently stepped down over the recent crackdown on college, and one of them at least visits JWD almost daily. I think the anti-higher ed stance is taking a serious toll among the believers. They may be staying in the congregations, but the level of commitment to the WTS is being dramatically affected.
I've run into several Witnesses in the last two weeks. They know me well, know I'm living with my girlfriend, know of my strong anti-JW stance and my ex-wife is still in the congregation. Yet all of them smiled at me and a few said hell-o - definite no-nos.
I think that every time the WTS clamps down on education, outside research, or changes some core teaching or meeting arrangement, they push more people away and closer to that critical mass that creates a tipping point. That's why I love the Society's reactionary response to the Internet and to education, research etc. That siege mentality is counter productive, but they have little in the way of alternatives at this point. The WTS has painted itself into a corner and left themselves with few choices.
Are they suddenly going to embrace evolution, college degrees or serious Biblical research? It certainly doesn't look like it, because they know if they do it'll be the end of the religion.
S4