Min,
I know the point you're making, and I'd think you'd probably agree that the whole Witness idea of what "bothers your conscience" is a very warped concept.
It sort of became the basis FOR making tons of rules as opposed to the basis for personal freedom based on an active respect for the individual conscience, the person's 'witness within."
Snowbird, I think Ray is making a similar point. And living it as well, it seems.
S4
Seeker4
JoinedPosts by Seeker4
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34
What Things Used To Bother Your Conscience?
by minimus ini have to admit that not much actually "bothered" my conscience.
what about you?
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Seeker4
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What Things Used To Bother Your Conscience?
by minimus ini have to admit that not much actually "bothered" my conscience.
what about you?
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Seeker4
Min, I've been thinking about this lately, and I have a different take on it.
I agree with many of the comments above, and had that view on a lot of things. But in the last years of my being a JW elder, I saw that there was an important application of the idea of conscience that was much more important and far reaching.
I don't have a Bible with me, but there is a verse that says that if you do something and it violates YOUR conscience, then it's a sin for you. Well, by this time there were a number of things that we were asked to do as elders that were really starting to bother my conscience.
I realized then that if I did something that the GB wanted me to do, and it bothered my conscience to do it, that scripturally that was a sin for me, and it's wrong to ask someone to commit a sin against their own conscience.
So, that became my way of getting around things or of getting other elders to think. If some elders wanted to take judicial action based on something that there was no scriptural basis for, I'd tell them that I couldn't go along with it. "But the Society says right here that we can do this," they'd say. "Brother, are you asking me to violate my conscience by doing something that my conscience tells me is wrong?" I'd respond.
That's a very hard argument to counter, as the Bible gives the individual conscience great power in determining what is right or wrong for that individual.
What might be some of the area's that an elder would have to obey his own conscience as opposed to just blindly doing what the WTS says?
An elder might find that his conscience troubles him in areas where the GB says you should do something where there is no scriptural backing:
• Removing a brother as an elder because he lets his kids go to college or speaks in favor of higher ed;
• Disciplining someone for taking a blood transfusion in the face of wavering WTS blood policies;
• Counseling a couple regarding oral sex in marriage;
• Taking judicial action against someone who has a birthday party.
The list, as we're aware, could go on and on, as the number of things the WTS has rules about is enormous. Imagine if elders were really encouraged to listen and follow their conscience on matters, and understood how scripturally vital that is.
What a crisis of conscience the WTS would face then!
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Being told what to say in Convention interviews
by passwordprotected inhas anyone else heard tell of interviewees in convention parts being told what to say?
the way i've heard it is you're contacted to be interviewed in a convention talk because you've had a great experience in some form or other and they need you to boast about it.
so, you meet with the brother handling the assignment and you go through your experience with him (boast about it).
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Seeker4
I literally had dozens of these type parts at CA, SAD and DCs over 15-20 years or so.
A lot depended on the CO or DO you had. With some of these guys rehearsals could be VERY stressful - especially those who wanted everyone to give a positive spin on their experience. The "lets never hear a negative word" C&DOs were a pain in the ass.
But there was a golden era when, after I'd done enough to be completely trusted, I got away with keeping things real in all my parts and interviews. And guess what - the friends LOVED it! Trust me - a lot of JWs find the Pollyanna experiences hard to swallow. Many, many times friends have complained to me about wanting to gag at the hokey experiences!
During the golden era, we had a CO or two (Frank Hans in particular) who trusted this one other elder and I with doing most of his rehearsals for him. We worked well together, and we'd get into these rehearsals and hear these totally scripted, stiff interviews or experiences. We'd listen carefully, and then, after it was over and the participants had relaxed, we'd just ask them a few questions, and get these totally great, enthusiastic, honest answers and expressions.
"THAT'S what we want to hear on the platform!" we'd tell them. For a few years the quality of the assemblies really improved.
I also had a cool experience in one of my first CA parts. I had to interview a handful of people, and arranged most of the stuff over the phone. One person I interviewed was a VERY attractive young woman, late teens or early 20s (hell, I was in my early 20s when I had the part!). Well I was pretty nervous, and honestly didn't notice that the girl had quite a short skirt on. Somehow that skirt also made it through the elders who checked us out before going on stage.
Well, standing up there on the stage made the skirt seem even shorter, and it caused a bit of a stir. Afterwards I was talking with the CO about it, a cool guy. He told me, "Don't worry about it. Trust me, half the audience might have thought the skirt was too short, but the other half was going, 'Yeah! It's about time!'"
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No CO's - Is It True?
by aniron ini've just heard that they are going to do away with circuit overseers.. is this true or just a rumour?.
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Seeker4
Nothing definite yet, and I was skeptical as well. Then I got a couple of PMs from people that I trust that indicate there will definitely be a big change in the CO arrangement, likely a switch to local super elders taking over occasional congregational visits.
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Do you want to know everything?
by John Doe inhumans seem to have a need to make sense of and explain things.
as such, religions and other unprovable ideas fill a needed gap in the human experience--that of the desire to know why we're here and where we came from.
but, have you ever stopped and wondered if we are better off knowing everything?
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Seeker4
Two answers to your question came quickly to mind.
A joking one: I already do!
And a serious one: The mystery is enough for me.
I do have an insatiable curiosity about so many things. I never get bored.
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JW's clearly going 'beyond the things written' - examples
by jambon1 inthe one that got me recently is the matter of elders being removed if they encourage college education in the cong.
where in the scriptures?
any others that spring to mind?
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Seeker4
If a married couple have sex after one of them has committed adultery, this nullifies being able to use the adultery as the basis for a scriptural divorce.
I've seen this ugly little rule really screw some lives up.
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Appendix on DF in New Book released at Convention 2008
by InquiryMan insome scans have been made regarding blood and birthdays in the new book that was released at this year s conventions.
as could be seen from the index of the book, there is an appendix on the topic of disfellowshipping.
this as a topic that definitely concerns quite a few of this board.
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Seeker4
bttt
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How was marriage viewed in your congregation?
by Alexia ini ask because i see a lot of posts here about how the borg discourages marriage.
my experience is quite the opposite.
young people were pressured into getting married the minute someone from the cong.
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Seeker4
My ex was 18, I was 20. Her sister and husband were both 19. My daughter and her husband were both 19. My buddy was 24 - his bride was 16!
Yeah, the WTS and young marriages. Can't date unless you intend to marry!
What a madhouse they've created!
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Looking for an atheist-community
by AntiKrist inyeah the topic says it all.
or an x-jw community would even be better =) however, i can't find one.
the only thing i can find is forums everywhere.
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Seeker4
Try the Brights. I'm a member.
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How do you get a non-thinker out?
by Mickey mouse init's really difficult for me to strike up "spiritual" conversations with my husband.
i am far more studious than he is (hence why i'm the one here i guess!!).
his membership in the borg is purely based upon habit and family appeasement.
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Seeker4
My ex is not a deep thinker, and I don't think there is anyway she would leave the WTS - it's her culture and I don't believe she'll leave it ever.
What shocks me are the Witnesses that I know who really do question things and think about matters - yet remain in the Org.
S4