Q,
Cynical Hell? Well… I can accept some of that, in fact, I really like the term “Cynical Hell.” Thanks for sharing.
I am cynical and sarcastic at times but I don’t see it as being in anything like the concept of hell or all consuming negativity. Being cynical to a certain extent can actually be fairly therapeutic, helpful, and somewhat liberating. It helps to mentally blow off the stupidity and ineptness like we here in the USA have had to endure with our current political administration and the over saturated media coverage of Mindless Bimbo Worship.
I have read enough of your posts over the last year or so to realize you too understand and have the intelligence to comprehend my term “Oblivious Utopia.” If not, just pull up the U-tube video of Tom Cruise on the Opera show or his interview with Matt Lauer of the Today show. That is “Oblivious Utopia” and the final inspiration for me coming up with the term. Thanks Tom! It is a state of mind where people shut off all outside influences and comprehension. They comfortably live in a protected mental state of oblivion in relation to their surroundings without concern or acknowledgement of anything or anybody outside of that perceived utopian existence. Especially those with a contradictory thought, warning or opinion that might disrupt their state of utopia. It’s kind of like the little picture of the three monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil.
I do not see you in that state at all. You have come out of that kind of existence and have asked questions, you now seem to be living in a constant state of doubt and confusion because you are not completely comfortable with the answers you have looked for and eventually found. I do see Susan in that mental state. So, I made my comments about her. I am not picking on her, I am just speaking about my observations of her comments on this board. I have read her comments on other threads where she adamantly states she is, and will always be a Mormon. So why the presence and posts on this exJW board? What is her objective? When both you and Susan went after Former Mormon on his introduction to the board thread it peaked my interest. Then this thread came up and I (even though he seems to be more than capable of handling himself) made my comments.
I appreciate and completely understand your thoughts about why you do not post on EX-Mormon boards. There are some here and on other Ex JW boards that have fallen into a very narrow perspective of “all” JW’s being the same brain dead followers, I use to talk and think the same way so I absolutely understand where they are summing from. Now I try to separate the difference between the JW people and their totalitarian ruling class of the corporate Watchtower executives.
I suspect you might be trying to do something similar in relation to the LDS corporation. But then again....I may be wrong.
Unfortunately you can not effect any changes in that regard by just posting here in the comfort and seclusion of a “like environment”. And, neither Susan, you, or any other visiting Mormon will escape hearing my thoughts and comments anymore when you do what you say you are trying to avoid by not posting on an EX Mormon board but attacking Ex Mormons who come here to give their opinions (whether it is a bit one sided or not).
Personally I would believe what any EX-Mormon would say about the inner workings of the LDS church before I would believe a die hard Mormon. And I don’t mean anything about the Book of Mormon dogma. I don’t care to argue about Mormon Dogma any more than I care to argue about JW dogma or if the original Silver Surfer is better or more powerful than the Newer Silver Surfer. It’s all bullshit to me.
And, as much as you may or may no longer feel a kinship toward me or any other exJW or ExMormon, I have always felt that way toward almost every ex-Mormon, ex-Scientologist, Ex-Moonie, Ex-Adventist, and Ex-Christian Scientist that I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Especially EX-Mormons. That includes You, as well as Former Mormon. The kinship is in the “Ex”. We are all bonded together with the stickiness of our Ex-cult-like religion’s bullshit. When and if you finally consider yourself an EX you will then have the freedom within your own mind to truly feel that kinship.
Take care,
Dave
PS, I don’t doubt for a second that you are actually lovely. I just have a hard time saying it. You damn English sure have a strange way with the English language.
seven006
JoinedPosts by seven006
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resident mormons: "Big Love"?
by inkling ini recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
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seven006
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resident mormons: "Big Love"?
by inkling ini recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
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seven006
Q,
That is one of the best responses I have seen you post to a fellow poster or posters on this board (and I have been reading most all of your posts since you first started posting here). It had some passion, back handed complements/stabs, a noble attempt to rescue an assumed damsel in distress, correct spelling and all that heroic knight on a white horse kind’a stuff that makes for an exciting post. Not bad coming from one of this board’s most consummate and consistent fence sitters. That is not a “slam” as you say, only an astute observation or your very own writing style.
Make up your mind Q. Quit being so afraid and hiding your doubts about Joe’s made up fantasy religion by posting on an exJW board. Grow some courage and take your questions and doubts to an exMormon discussion board where they are more familiar with the fantasies of Joe Smith (the L. Ron Hubbard of the 1800’s.)
Or even better take your questions to the archaeologist who did the actual archeological excavation of the Hill Cumorah (sorry if I spelt that wrong, I have a problem remembering how to spell made up stuff) in Up State New York and found absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims of a massive war written about in the incredible book of fantasy and fiction known as the book of Mormon. But I guess you can’t do that since the Mormon church bought up all the land around hill Cumorah and close it down to any more archeological excavation. How convenient.
It’s amazing what you can afford when you garnish 10% of your 12 million or so follower’s income and call it a tax exempt tithe instead of protection money like the Mob calls it. As with all cult like minority religions and Mafia families, it’s all about the power and the money. Mormon leaders buy entire hills and the JW leaders buy whole city blocks in Brooklyn. It seems that god gets his real-estate priorities mixed up at times. But he seems to like New York state a lot. Go Nicks!
Q, you seem to be somewhat intelligent and undoubtedly a nice guy and loving father. Use those traits and make a decisive decision in your life. Hiding here on JWD defending and then ridiculing both sides of the Mormon issue gets you and everyone else absolutely no where. It is a perfect example of self gratifying mental masturbation.
Use what intelligence you do have, break out of your state of confusion and make a decision in your life, then try sticking with it.
You always have come off on this board as a really nice guy. Most Mormons I have met are also really nice guys. Same with most of the JW’s, Christian Scientist, Seventh Day Adventists and Scientologists that I have met. They all appear to be really “nice people” and for the most part they are.
It’s a part of the programming and also a part of the show. Not all of it is, but it is the part that the leaders (governing body) of the cult like minority religions use as their lure in their dog and pony shows. That little show tries to make them come off as the “one and only true religion” with wholesome family values because their people dress nicely, have great big pearly white tooth smiles and wear pretty new dresses and easy-on easy-off snap on ties. The more white teeth smiles and snap on ties they can show in their cult brochures and TV Christmas specials, the more chance they have in catching hungry and clueless converts with those superficial and metaphysical fish hooks. All Minority religions and cult like religions do that. It’s a big part of their marketing plan.
I can even remember when Barbara Bush had a group of kids from the “children of God” cult lined up with her for a photo op on the front lawn of the White House. Little did she know it was not only common practice but an important part of the cult’s allure, teaching and perverted dogma to sexually molest those little children with those big white smiles and clip on ties. Type “Children of God” into a search engine and see it for yourself. And we thought the JW’s and Mormons had child molestation problems.
If your back handed compliment about “enlightened ones” is in reference to me. Then say so. I have never hidden my reasons or purpose for being on this board. It is plain for anyone to see and read. I do not make anything up as I go. I am neither Joseph Smith Brigham Young, Chucky Russell, Freddy Franz, Billy Miller or any other minority religion’s founder or corporate president. That is their M.O. Not mine.
Since you brought it up, and I do not want to try and mislead or misinterpret anyone, maybe I should ask you and the other Mormon or ex-Mormon posters on this board what their true motive or purpose is for posting here. And why don’t they/you post on an ex-Mormon board instead of an exJW board? It seems to be more relevant to your situations.
So it’s out there, all Mormons or ex-Mormons on this board can now take this chance and enlighten us with the true reason they post here (it might even make a great new thread topic). It would probably help clear things up and keep “enlightened” people using tough guy words like myself from assuming anything by trying to read between the lines. If I am wrong in my conclusions I have shown many times on this board that I have no problem admitting I was wrong or apologizing for it.
Take care,
Dave -
40
resident mormons: "Big Love"?
by inkling ini recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
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seven006
Old,
Susanhere (from what I can see from her posts) is in a state of “oblivious utopia”. She is not aware of, can reason out, or accept anything that will get her to “think” outside of her present state of programmed consciousness no matter how much logic and reasoning you offer up.
It would be like you trying to reason with Tom Cruise as he is jumping up and down on Opra’s couch. It aint gonna happen. She is oblivious to accepting anything outside of her programmed Mormon thoughts. It is a state of existence that is not only consistent with other high control groups and cult like minority religions but is essential for their existence. It is also an altered state of consciousness that got the group of followers at Heavens Gate and the Peoples Temple to do what they did.
She aint gonna take the bait. She can’t even see it.
Dave -
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resident mormons: "Big Love"?
by inkling ini recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
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seven006
Former,
Except for the ex-sociologist, the ex-JW’s and ex-Mormons are the most active in using the Information Era’s tools to expose the wolves in sheep’s clothing. It is not the Mormons or even the JW”s that are the problem. It is the governing body of power and glory hungry old men that control the two groups of good hearted and well meaning people that are the problem.
Outside of the obvious dogma programming techniques, the same techniques of positioning and branding used by the advertising industry to sell soap and beer are used to control the minds of the minority religions flocks. The most effective aspect of positioning is the average consumer doesn’t have a clue it is being used. Neither does the average sheep.
I have looked at both post mormon.org and exmormon.org I wanted to try and join exmormon.org a while back to be able to exchange ideas and ask questions but part of the prerequisite posted on the site before joining is you had to be, or have been a Mormon. I am/was not, nor ever will be. One cult like high control group in a life time is more than enough.
BTW, I am no longer in recovery. Iv been out for over 23 years. I’m just here for the laughs and to help out a little when I can.
There are a lot of “still goers” here too for all the same reasons as you, don’t worry about it. Everybodys gotsta do what they gotsta do.
Take care,
Dave -
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resident mormons: "Big Love"?
by inkling ini recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
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seven006
FormerMormon,
I just wanted to thank you for your comments about Mormons and the LDS church on this board. I have done a lot of research on the majority of “Minority Religions” and cult like high control groups over the past several years and I find what you have to say is more in line with what I have discovered.
I have only commented once on one of the Mormon topic threads that have popped up on this board in the last few months. I asked a couple of questions. One was about the Hill Cumorah, the Joseph Smith’s fairytale war and lack of archeological evidence and the other was about college choices of Mormons. You were the only one of the three Mormon/ex-Mormons who post on this board that bothered to make an attempt at responding to my questions. Thank you for that.
One of our Mormon contributors on this board seems to be here just to promote and defend Mormonism. She seems to use the age old cult tactic of trying to discredit you to try and fool those who don’t know the difference and read your comments into thinking everything you say is wrong and only what she says is right concerning the subject. She has come to the wrong place to do that. Everyone on this board has seen the watchtower printing company use the same bullshit tactic to try and discredit every exJW and label everything they say as apostate lies. Through my years of researching cult like religions like the JW’s, Mormons Scientologist, Moonies etc, they all use the same bullshit tactics.
In their attempt to set themselves apart and show that they are “the one and only ”truth”” They have all proven to be exactly the same.
Just as we get the occasional active JW who comes here and posts in a lame attempt to defend their religion’s bullshit, we seem to have attracted an active Mormon or two that are trying to do the same thing. Just like the JW’s who come here and post, the only ones they are fooling are themselves.
I wanted to make these comments to you on another Mormon type thread that was more relevant to my comments but did not get a chance. So when this one popped up I said what I had to say. On subject relevance, I do watch HBO and I think the show Big Love is as interesting as it is comical. Just like the religion.
Again, thanks for your honest comments without the Mormon bullshit infomercial slant attached to them.
Take care,
Dave -
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..Are you Afraid??..
by OUTLAW inwe all make friends on this board..but..what happens when someone you get along with,posts something you don`t agree with?.....are you afraid to tell that poster what you really think?..they might get really pissy with you!................are you afraid??..
................outlaw
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seven006
Outlaw,
It happens.
It is also something that builds caricature and understanding in both. Maybe.
There are several on this board who I agree with about 90% of the time when it comes to their context in relation to the subject matter or instance being discussed or played out on this forum. But, adamantly disagree at times, with in their style, agenda orientated slant and timing of the presentation of that context.
You and I have been on this board for about the same amount of time. We have both seen it all. I think you understand what I am saying.
When it comes to the virtual reality and relative personal importance of this and other discussion boards, I have learned to keep one thought in a tightly focused perspective. It is better to keep a good friend than it is to make a good point.
People here tend to take it all too seriously. The ones who do are the ones who are afraid.
Dave -
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Does Debating Have to Be Abusive - To Be Effective ?
by flipper inmy wife and i were having an interesting discussion about some of the debates that take place on the board here .
now, granted most people , i feel upwards of 90 % on the board maybe higher try to be respectful in their debates or discussions on topics.
i think we all had enough bashing in the witness organization.
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seven006
I can’t believe I read the whole thing.
Getting back to the original question, does debating have to be abusive to be effective? Well… that all depends on who you are trying to effect.
On a Disneyland adventure ride discussion board for kids under the age of ten. No. Discussions using words, terms, and thoughts like fun, exciting, wow, and really really scary should suffice.
On a DB like JWD, given the multilevel aspects of almost everything. Abusiveness is as much a part of it’s discussion dynamics and makes it work as the kissy huggyness is. It is what gives it balance.
Balance of it’s diversity is what has kept JWD growing during it’s many ups, downs agreements, and disagreements as well as its knock down kick-ass flame wars. It’s not because of the “old posters” or because of it’s “new posters” (as alluded to on your other thread). It is because of it’s uncanny ability to balance itself out in spite of it’s constant changing dynamics.
The nicey nice “big hug Jesus loves yous ” as well as the “get a clue dip shits” are what gives it balance and keeps it both informative and entertaining.
Once a person can “honestly” identify within “them self” what their priority is in coming here and then posting here. Then and only then will they be able identify what it is that keeps them here in spite of what they may like or don’t like. An individual’s style of posting is just that, a style. It’s not always fact or fiction to anyone else but them self and in reality doesn’t make anyone bleed or expire.
Whether it’s to get or give support, this place is about support, validation, and a sense of community/family. Those are the things that were taken from all of us in such a deceitful manner by a tax-exempt very profitable printing company.
Some may feel a cuss word is abusive and burns their mind’s delicate little ears while others may feel a prayer makes them want to puke creamed corn and carrot chunks. In my opinion they balance each other out very nicely. It is up to each person’s own level of security or insecurity to decide which style they choose to keep reading and which one is worth or not worth commenting on. In most cases it is familiarity with a posters style that drives a thread more than it’s topic.
This place needs the cutting rapier whit of guys like HS and Farkel (two of my favorite smart-asses) just as much as it needs the “can’t we all just get along, peace, love and all that hippie stuff” like Flipper.
JWD has always had, and always will have, both sets of personalities. It is what makes it work the way it does.
So in answer to your original question Mr. Flipper. Yes and no.
Dave -
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FIREPHIM revisited for all the new ones
by seven006 inyesterday i got a call from one of my exjw friends.
during our conversation (which usually are centered around the watchtower printing company) i asked her if she had read a post i wrote several years ago here on jwd about the group called firephim.
firephim was a corporation that was established by represenitives of the watchtower corp, the scientologist, the raelians (a ufo cult), the moonies, the children of god church (the sex cult) as well as a few other cults.
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seven006
Min, make it clickable yourself! Simon hates Mac’s
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FIREPHIM revisited for all the new ones
by seven006 inyesterday i got a call from one of my exjw friends.
during our conversation (which usually are centered around the watchtower printing company) i asked her if she had read a post i wrote several years ago here on jwd about the group called firephim.
firephim was a corporation that was established by represenitives of the watchtower corp, the scientologist, the raelians (a ufo cult), the moonies, the children of god church (the sex cult) as well as a few other cults.
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seven006
Got Damned formatting!
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FIREPHIM revisited for all the new ones
by seven006 inyesterday i got a call from one of my exjw friends.
during our conversation (which usually are centered around the watchtower printing company) i asked her if she had read a post i wrote several years ago here on jwd about the group called firephim.
firephim was a corporation that was established by represenitives of the watchtower corp, the scientologist, the raelians (a ufo cult), the moonies, the children of god church (the sex cult) as well as a few other cults.
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seven006
FIREPHIM revisited for new ones
Yesterday I got a call from one of my exJW friends. During our conversation (which usually are centered around the Watchtower printing Company) I asked her if she had read a post I wrote several years ago here on JWD about the group called Firephim. Firephim was a corporation that was established by represenitives of the Watchtower Corp, The Scientologist, The Raelians (a UFO cult), The Moonies, The Children of God church (the sex religion) as well as a few other cults. She, had not read it but wanted too.
Here is the link target="_blank" like this:
<a http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/26341/1.ashx
" target="_blank">http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/26341/1.ashx
</a>
I told her I would e-mail her the link but then thought it might be interesting to some of the new posters here on JWD to read the information as well. When I did the research and wrote the post back in 2002 there were only ten or fifteen links to the subject on any of the search engines. Most of the links were written in English with a few in French and German.
The subject is also presented on Randy Watter’s Free Minds site (even though I have never been able to find it there).
If you type the word FIREPHIM on a search engine now, you get 544 links on Yahoo and 345 links on Google. You also get links in Russian, Greek, Japanese, Korean, the three languages I mentioned before and some languages I don’t have a clue what the hell they are.
The internet is helping to expose all the cults for what and who they really are.
The JW leadership has boasted about the fact that they have fulfilled a biblical proclamation “Get out of her my people” referring to “false religion”. But when it helps the bottom line of their bank account, they try to sneak behind their good hearted, well meaning, but clueless followers and do exactly the opposite of (and will disfellowship for) what they demand from them.
The JW leadership tells the world that they disfellowship some of their members in an effort “to keep the congregation clean” but behind closed doors (they think) they freely associate with some of he most notorious “minority religions (cults) in existence. Just type in any search engine the names of any of the religions mentioned above as part of Firephim and read about them.
Firephim no longer exists as a legal corporation but its legacy lives on…all over the world and now in many languages.
For Barb,
Dave