I failed miserably in explaining my thoughts in my post.
IronGland
JoinedPosts by IronGland
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27
When you die, I suspect you wake up crying
by IronGland inthis post isn't about the paranormal or whether there is, in fact, life after death.
rather, it's about the mistaken philosophical conclusions to which atheists sometimes come.
2. the passage of time is not a process.
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27
When you die, I suspect you wake up crying
by IronGland inthis post isn't about the paranormal or whether there is, in fact, life after death.
rather, it's about the mistaken philosophical conclusions to which atheists sometimes come.
2. the passage of time is not a process.
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27
When you die, I suspect you wake up crying
by IronGland inthis post isn't about the paranormal or whether there is, in fact, life after death.
rather, it's about the mistaken philosophical conclusions to which atheists sometimes come.
2. the passage of time is not a process.
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27
When you die, I suspect you wake up crying
by IronGland inthis post isn't about the paranormal or whether there is, in fact, life after death.
rather, it's about the mistaken philosophical conclusions to which atheists sometimes come.
2. the passage of time is not a process.
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IronGland
This post isn't about the paranormal or whether there is, in fact, life after death. Rather, it's about the mistaken philosophical conclusions to which atheists sometimes come. In fact, for the sake of this thread, we're going to assume that when you die, there is no afterlife, and you are dead forever.
There are two versions of the Incorrect Interpretation of What It Is Like to Die, as I call it here: the Mean Version and the Nice Version. Both are mistaken in that it is implied or stated that one experiences death after one loses all ability to experience anything.
The Mean Version
You dead, m*th*f***a! And you dead forever! Ain't no sweet chariot coming down to sweep you up to Abraham's bosom. No sir. Just you in your grave, all trapped in there--rotting piteously! The seasons will come and go, the earth itself will be swallowed up by the sun a few billion years from now, and all you'll be is cinders in a dying star. You dead, m*th*f***a!
The Nice Version
Lay your burden down, sweet friend; let the reaper take you easily. When you close at last those heavy lids, all duties, all troubles, all sources of stress or consternation will dissolve like mist--and all that will remain are eons of peaceful rest. The seasons will come and go, the birds twitter in the oaks, and you shall be returned to nature, one with all, at rest for eternity.
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I think we've all read or heard sentiments like the ones above. It all depends on the type of non-believer. Some want to taunt you because you believe naively in the Resurrection. Some want to comfort because you think that fear and loathing of death must accompany the atheist worldview. But either approach is incorrect, if we take seriously the tenets of Modern Science.
Here are the facts. If any of these is unscientific, let me know. I'll recant!
1. No region of space-time is any real or more actual than any other. 500 years ago in Africa has just as much being as tomorrow near Beta Centauri.
Why do we think or feel otherwise? Simply because we occupy one patch of space-time and not another. But this perspective in no wise alters what was, is, or will be. In fact, the future is *already* just as real as today appears to us right now.
2. The passage of time is NOT a process. Similarly, the passage of times does NOT turn the present into the future.
With a little thought, the truth of the above is readily apparent. While it is true that all processes take time, time itself is not a process nor the product of a process. Consider a chemical reaction. We dump sodium bicarbonate into vinegar, and the process of neutralization occurs. If we dump it, it does occur; if we don't, it does not. The process is contingent on our actions and the chemical and physical properties involved.
But time is not contingent on any actions. Would the years stop if the earth stopped revolving around the sun? No. Can we speed time up or slow it down? No. We cannot influence it, catalyze it, encourage it or discourage it. It is not a process; rather, it is a location.
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Let's put these facts together with the reality of death. We die; we're gone. What happens?
We wake up as squawling newborn babies.
The reason is simple: We occupy a certain region of spacetime; that region never goes away (Fact 1), is never ground by time's grounder into oblivion, as time is a location, not a process (Fact 2).
Of course, we do not remember our future, and our future is the same as it ever was or ever will be. The same life events within the same space-time.
Likewise there is no oblivion, pleasant or un-, to be experienced. We are not there in space-time to experience it. Just as I experienced no unpleasantness when supernovae eons ago exploded and thereby formed the iron running in my blood this moment, I will experience nothing positive or negative when the sun withers in the future. I will, however, experience my experiences within my patch of space-time, and nothing can ever undo that ("The writing finger having writ...").
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We must, however, consider the question of how merciful all the above facts truly are. I would hold that the negativity we experienced in the past *continues* to be experienced in that piece of space-time (that is, the passage of time does not obliviate it), and likewise all the good we experiened *continues* to be so experienced.
This is quite unfair, perhaps, to those who experienced more negative than positive. It may, in fact, be that, for some, the Mean Version of an experienced oblivion is preferable to an unpleasant life within space-time that *continues* to persist.
What do YOU think? -
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Fifty Per Cent Of Personal Bankruptcy Claims in US Due To Medical Costs
by hillary_step ini was stunned by this dismal piece that i read in forbes magazine recently.
coming from the uk it is astonishing to me that an affluent nation as is the us, cannot provide better protection for the health and welfare of its citizens.
i was especially astonished by the fact that insurance companies withdraw their coverage while a person is sick and in need of help.
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IronGland
Ladies,
I was simply using the previous post by Simon to espouse my theory that Simon likes to bash the US. In this particular case I would concede that he does have a point. I also read the Guardian and it was not my intent to question their journalistic integrity.
**Hillary, if that is not your name and is a reference to Mt Everest, forgive me for including you in the term 'ladies'. Although you could be a lady with an interest in mountaineering.**
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Fifty Per Cent Of Personal Bankruptcy Claims in US Due To Medical Costs
by hillary_step ini was stunned by this dismal piece that i read in forbes magazine recently.
coming from the uk it is astonishing to me that an affluent nation as is the us, cannot provide better protection for the health and welfare of its citizens.
i was especially astonished by the fact that insurance companies withdraw their coverage while a person is sick and in need of help.
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IronGland
Actually, the US isn't an affluent country. It is a country with a small percentage of very affluent people. Citizens of many, many other countries are much better off because they have social and medical welfare that everyone contributes too. A completely private system does not work IMO (or at least the US model doesn't).
The *real* average pay of the average Joe hasn't gone up in the last 30 years even though the economy may have - the proportion that CEOs and the like have taken out has rocketed though.
Ray-gun claimed that a rising tide lifted all the boats but I think the reality is that many just get sunk.
The real problem with the US though is how letigious everyone is and the whole legal system is just a drain on society.
LOL. I think you have some type of filter that alerts you to any mention of the United States in a post and there you are telling how awful it is. If I remember correctly you took a trip to Florida last year and I assume you have a subscription to the Guardian. I've been debating taking a short trip to Wales in the near future. When I return I shall make it my goal to educate all citizens of the UK on all aspects of UK life.
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My wife says I never listen to her...
by onacruse in.
...or something like that.. craigster (of the "i luv some of those bumper-stickers i see" class).
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IronGland
Your wife????? Onacruse, I always thought you were a woman. Sorry, Strange.....
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Lacko Jacko Finally Faces The Music
by Country Girl inmon, january 31, 2005 .
jacko faces the music.
whispers finally air in court.
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IronGland
If he gets off, given what is already known, then it will be a laughing stock IMO and will have zero credibility around the world. It's already poorly viewed in many places.
Hopefully you are exempt from jury duty.
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scientist vs god
by candidlynuts ingod is sitting in heaven when a scientist says to him,.
"god, we don't need you anymore.
science has finally.
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scientist vs god
by candidlynuts ingod is sitting in heaven when a scientist says to him,.
"god, we don't need you anymore.
science has finally.
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IronGland
Thanks czar. I used to be a die hard evelutionist, but that story showed me it was created by the sweet hand of God. Scientist's sure are dumb. I cant believe I really believed in Evolution. No Monkeys in MY family tree. (yuk yuk yuk).