Posts by siegswife

6

Enlightenment

by Introspection in

jw
friends

22 years ago

well, i thought a few of you out there might be interested in this, this is taken from the book ask the awakened by wei wu wei:.

enlightenment by non-action.

all so-called volition is a manifestation of the i-concept.

6 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Hi Introspection! I can grasp the concept that is being expressed in those words, but I have to ask you something.

Reading this and some of your other posts, I understand that to you, "belief" is so interconnected to "ego" that in order for someone to become enlightened they have to let go of "belief" before they can let go of "ego". Please correct me if I'm wrong about my understanding of what you are saying.

The problem (or question) I have about all this is that what you are saying also represents a 'belief".

Isn't it considered a belief to believe that it is only by letting go of "belief" and "ego" that someone obtains enlightenment?

It's like it says in the tao: (I'm using Stephen Mitchells version)

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternal real.

Naming is the origin of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.

Caught in desire, you see only the manifestation.

Yet mystery and manifestation arise from the same source.

This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gateway to all understanding.

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6

Thi Chi...you want proof?

by siegswife in

22 years ago

one thing you can do is go to the unification churches website and type in washington times.. http://www.unification.net/.

here's some reading for you in the meantime (bold added by me):.

http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

bttb...because I see Thi Chi's in the house.

Hey Thi Chi, if you take the time to read the article I posted, notice where it says that the Moonies held a "pro gulf war rally" during dad's presidency, and how they add to the appearance of a "grass roots support" of the republican agenda. I think this is very disconcerting since we have no way of knowing how many of those who are in support of GW and his agenda are actually cult members.

It makes me leary of the people who are so fanatical about GW, this war and those who would silence the opinions of the people on the other side of the issues.

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37

Time to Arrest the Leaders of the Anti-War Movement,

by LuckyLucy in

22 years ago

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html

the u.s. sedition act

united states, statutes at large, washington, d.c., 1918, vol.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

More about the Paul Revere Society here: http://www.savagestupidity.com/prs-sitewatch.html

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31

Is Relgious belief a trick of the mind?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

22 years ago

.

what is it about our brians that drives people to religious beliefs that are so obviously nopt founded in fact or reason?is it an inherant founction of our tiny brians or is it in fact our brians going wrong in trying to make sense of the world?

maybe its the psychological equivelent of an optical illution were your brain in trying to make sense of what it sees constructs an impossible reality .like say when you draw a "3-d" box on a flat piece of paper and the brain tries to work out which face is on the front , but it can't, as none is, but the brain will put one in front whatever.maybe religion is what the brain makes to explain the world and uses it so the weiredness of reality makes more sense.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

I'm not sure what you're saying, so I'll try to chew on it before I reply in any depth to what you said.

My concept of God is that He is and the thing that we as people are missing (or striving for) is the ultimate recognition of being too. Simply put, I believe that eventually people will get to the point that they are God in their expression of self (as in "I AM").

Before any fundy's accuse me of some sort of blasphemy I want to point out that in the Bible it says that the eventual end (or beginning) will be when "God is all things to everyone". To me, that means that people and everything else will be recognized as God.

I don't know that my idea or concept of that is wrong, so I don't really wish to get rid of it at this time, thanks.

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31

Is Relgious belief a trick of the mind?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

22 years ago

.

what is it about our brians that drives people to religious beliefs that are so obviously nopt founded in fact or reason?is it an inherant founction of our tiny brians or is it in fact our brians going wrong in trying to make sense of the world?

maybe its the psychological equivelent of an optical illution were your brain in trying to make sense of what it sees constructs an impossible reality .like say when you draw a "3-d" box on a flat piece of paper and the brain tries to work out which face is on the front , but it can't, as none is, but the brain will put one in front whatever.maybe religion is what the brain makes to explain the world and uses it so the weiredness of reality makes more sense.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Introspection, Doesn't submission to authority give authenticity to the belief that those authorities are superior? LOL

What makes authority "authority" except the belief that they are, and where does that belief stem from? If it's something learned, where did the original concept come from? What made men decide that there would be certain men that would be "superior" and "authorities"? Is this something that came about strictly because some men decided to take over and be the boss? What gave them the idea to create the concept? I think that the concept already existed.

It could be that it is a perversion of the parent/child relationship, but still, children grow up and assume the role of parent. So what makes/made people decide to believe in and give authenticity to the concept of superior authorities even when it can detrimentally affect their basic insticts to have enough food and other neccessities for their families? Even when it takes away from their own autonomy?

It doesn't make sense to me unless "Authority" already exists and we instinctively know it even if we don't identify it as God.

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26

IT'S A BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Tatiana in

22 years ago

my son and his girlfriend had their first baby today.....a boy, stephon kaliph.

7.10 oz.

i was there for the birth.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Congratulations grandma! What a precious little grandson you have there. Welcome to the club and try not to spoil him too much even though it's lots of fun.

Lea

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31

Is Relgious belief a trick of the mind?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

22 years ago

.

what is it about our brians that drives people to religious beliefs that are so obviously nopt founded in fact or reason?is it an inherant founction of our tiny brians or is it in fact our brians going wrong in trying to make sense of the world?

maybe its the psychological equivelent of an optical illution were your brain in trying to make sense of what it sees constructs an impossible reality .like say when you draw a "3-d" box on a flat piece of paper and the brain tries to work out which face is on the front , but it can't, as none is, but the brain will put one in front whatever.maybe religion is what the brain makes to explain the world and uses it so the weiredness of reality makes more sense.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

I'd like to start out by saying that I don't believe in religion. It's a snare and a racket. LOL

The concept of belief in God or a higher authority is something that I think is inside all of us to a degree. I'm not really able to express this adequately (I've tried talking it out with Sieg, but can't seem to find the right words) but it involves the idea that the fact that we are able to accept manmade authority (governments) demonstrates that "Authority" exists.

If authority didn't exist on some unseen level, why are we willing to give men authority over us, often to our own detriment? Why are we compelled to let others lord over us even if it means our own demise? Like in countries where many people are kept in abject poverty. What is it that prevents them from rebelling against the authorities that keep them in that position? If they and their children are starving to death anyway, why don't they just put up a fight against it and die trying? I know that I'm not getting my point across clearly *sigh*.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fact that we are willing to subject ourselves to manmade authority shows me that there is an unseen force that gives "reality" to the concept, and in the minds of many of us that unseen force is God. Believing that God is the force behind whatever authority there is isn't that much of a stretch if you are willing to accept that men can be put in high positions. *sigh* I just know that I'm not saying this clearly.

On the other side of the coin, Sieg (who does believe in God, but is good at playing the devils advocate) tells me that what I'm thinking could also be compatable with evolution and survival of the fittest. Still, it seems to me that there is something unseen that makes us so willing to even accept the concept of "superior authority" to begin with.

I hope I don't sound like a rambling lunatic. I don't want to blow my cover. LOL

In conclusion, religious belief is only a trick of the mind if you consider submission to any type of authority to be the same, imo.

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25

Well I finally got the cajones.....

by hoodwinked in

jw
friends

22 years ago

gidday to all you "apostates"....or should i say "truth-seekers" on j-w.com .

i have been "lurking" on this board for about 3 months and i finally feel ready to say something about the situation that i am in right now.

it's rather tenuous because i was recently baptised <1yr ago.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Welcome to the board! I think "the borg" is a very appropriate label too.

I can't say they were all cold, some were very warm and friendly to me but to my amazement it was the so-called "sprirtually weak" ones who showed the most christian love

I agree with that. Most of the people I grew closest to were the ones considered "spiritually weak" because they were the ones who were the friendliest toward me. Now that I think about it, at times I even felt a measure of disapproval from the "strong" ones because of my association with some of those people. I'm not sure why, since one of my friends who wasn't very good in the "time" department even got in her "quota" a couple of months because I was auxillary pioneering and she would go out with me sometimes. (I wasn't in the pioneer clique, and they already had their little groups arranged most of the time).

One of them even tried to talk to me after I told the elders that I didn't want anything to do with them anymore. I kinda blew her off at the time because I didn't have all the info I have now, and didn't want her to get in trouble or "poison" her mind. I was sure about my stand, but I still wasn't quite ready to totally write the WTS off as the insidious cult that it is.

I hope the "weak" friends I had finally came to their senses and split.

Anyhoo, stick around and enjoy the education!

Lea

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6

Thi Chi...you want proof?

by siegswife in

22 years ago

one thing you can do is go to the unification churches website and type in washington times.. http://www.unification.net/.

here's some reading for you in the meantime (bold added by me):.

http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Thanks for the kind words Thi Chi!

Here's a few links

http://www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/p-politicians-governorgeorgewbush.html

http://www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/p-politicians-governorgeorgewbush2.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif131.html

I thought you might find this article interesting (bold added):

http://liberalslikechrist.org/mainpage/bushmoon.html

BUSH , REV. MOON & Washington Times
By Carla Binion
11/09/99
In the 1970s, the Fraser Senate Investigating Committee looked into the "Koreagate" scandal. . . Then-U.S. Representative Donald Fraser said the senate committee discovered that Moonie leaders were told Moon wanted to start political work in the U.S. The Moonies were told that objection to Moon's goals would equal objection to God. (Fraser Committee Report, page 320.)
President George Bush was head of the CIA when Koreagate broke in 1976 and knew the above details. Despite that, Bush (1) Did nothing to oppose the Unification Church's deceptive, coercive, brainwashing tactics or designs on our political system, and (2) In 1995 spoke at a series of Moon rallies in the U.S. and Japan. The rallies were hosted by Mrs. Moon's front group Women's Federation for World Peace (WFWP). (Jolen Chang, "Asian Fortune," March 1995.) Bush received one million pounds for payment according to the "British Daily Mail." ("Bush and '1M from Moonies,' "Daily Mail," September 5, 1995.)
George Bush claimed innocence and gave his only interview on the subject to the Moonie owned paper, "The Washington Times." Bush praised the WFPF's "great emphasis on family" and told the "Times:" "Until I see something about the Women's Federation that troubles me, I will continue to encourage them." (Peter McGill, et al, "Ed Schreyer and the Moonies," "Maclean's," October 23, 1995; Andrew Pollack, "Bush Host In Japan Tied To Rev. Moon," "The New York Times," September 4, 1995.)
Because Bush headed the CIA during Koreagate, he knew that when the Moonies talk of "family" they mean the "True Family" of the Unification Church. As former head of the CIA, he also knew of The Washington Times Moonie connections.
The Washington Times newspaper has long been bankrolled and controlled by Moonie interests. The paper's former editorial page editor, William Cheshire, said he thinks the paper is operating in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. ("Cults and the Media," Cult Awareness Network News, December 1990.) The Act requires foreign controlled businesses to make financial and other forms of disclosure to the Justice Department and was originally passed to expose covert Nazi funding of American newspapers. According to Frederick Clarkson, ETERNAL HOSTILITY, several Moon media executives, including San Kook Han, were Korean CIA (KCIA) officials during the "Koreagate" era in the '70s.
Many former Moonies say the organization uses deceptive recruiting practices and indoctrination techniques that amount to brainwashing. Some report the church strong-arms members to remain against their will. Many who manage to make it out of the cult report that soon after members are indoctrinated, they're coerced to abandon their families and become members of the "True Family" (the Unification Church.) Church members are taught that Rev. Moon is the Messiah and that Rev. and Mrs. Moon are their "True Parents."
Clarkson reports that former member Steve Hassan said the Moonies used social isolation, nutrition and sleep deprivation for indoctrination purposes. When church recruiters first approached Hassan, they claimed they didn't represent a religious group.
Hassan reports that Unification Church recruits are taught that any doubts they have about Rev. Moon are "satanic attacks or evil spirits trying to get in" and are repeatedly told their families are satanic. Members are taught "thought stopping" techniques to prevent doubts about Moon. Hassan's family hired deprogrammers who said Moon's goals and methods are theocratic and fascistic. Hassan was so thoroughly brainwashed that during the deprogramming he believed that even if Moon were Hitler, he would follow him. Today Hassan works to help church victims.
Rev. Sun Myung Moon has worked to get Unification Church tentacles into every phase of rightwing politics. Literally hundreds of Moonie front groups bankroll and work with "conservative" politicians. Moonies send out their members to give the false appearance of grassroot support for political causes. Moon's American Freedom Coalition (AFC) staged pro-Gulf War rallies in all fifty states in 1990 and 1991, including a rally of 400 people at the Statue of Liberty. ("Pro-War Rally Near Lady Liberty: 'Let Freedom Ring' 400 Activists Told," "Bergen County Record," February 10, 1991.)
The World Anti-Communist League (WACL) is an international alliance of fascist and Nazi groups, "conservatives," governments and individuals. Frederick Clarkson (ETERNAL HOSTILITY, Common Courage Press, 1997) writes that the head of the Unification Church in Japan was a member of the WACL board of directors for years. "The Japanese section of WACL, Shokyo Rengo, was founded in 1968 as an alliance between top Unification Church officials and leaders of the Yakuza (Japanese organized crime), notably Yoshio Kodama," according to Clarkson.
Senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC), spoke at the annual WACL conference in Tokyo in 1970 and later helped Rev. Moon get into the U.S. by working to overcome his immigration problems. (Robert Boettcher, GIFTS OF DECEIT: SUN MYUNG MOON, TONGSUN PARK, AND THE KOREAN SCANDAL, Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 1980; Frederick Clarkson, "God Is Phasing Out Democracy," "Covert Action Quarterly," Spring, 1987.)
After Congress cut off CIA funding for the contras in 1984, the Moonie-supported WACL helped provide contra arms and money. Moon's front group CAUSA also provided contra money. (John Lee Anderson and Scott Anderson, INSIDE THE LEAGUE: THE SHOCKING EXPOSE OF HOW TERRORISTS, NAZIS AND LATIN AMERICAN DEATH SQUADS HAVE INFILTRATED THE WORLD ANTI-COMMUNIST LEAGUE, Dodd, Mead & Company, 1986.)
Frederick Clarkson writes that in a November 15, 1979 press statement, former WACL youth leader Allen Tate Wood said that Moon told him to "win the power centers" of the U.S., starting with academia. Wood also stated Moon told him: "Part of our strategy in the U.S. must be to make friends in the FBI, the CIA and police forces, the military and business community . . . as a means of entering the political arena, influencing foreign policy, and ultimately establishing absolute dominion over the American people."
Frederick Clarkson (ETERNAL HOSTILITY) notes that Moon-sponsored events operate under deceptively conventional sounding names. The Moon-backed "Global Family Festival" sounds conservative, but to church members it refers to the "True Family." In 1994, then-Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN), Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS), and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), sponsored supporting a "Parent's Day" resolution that turned out to be initiated by the Unification Church.
Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC) addressed Moon's CAUSA-sponsored "American Leadership Conferences" at least five times in 1988 alone. (Frederick Clarkson, "Heaven and Helms," "Washington City Paper," August 18, 1989.) Conservative activists came together at those meetings for strategy sessions and INDOCTRINATION into CAUSA ideology, or "Godism." Rev. Jerry Falwell, Senator Orrin Hatch and CA Rep. Pete Wilson also addressed the conferences.
One conscientious moderate Republican, Rep. Jim Leach (R-IA) said in 1983: "A political movement basing its appeal on old fashioned patriotism and family values simply cannot justify an alliance with a cult that preys on the disintegration of the American family and advocates allegiance to an international social order operating with cell-like secrecy." ("Ripon Forum," January 1983.)
The billions of dollars of Unification Church money -- money used to bankroll The Washington Times and religious right and Republican interests in the U.S. -- comes partly from Japanese Moonies selling religious artifacts and other items at inflated prices. American Moonies are also used to sell flowers and raise funds.
In Japan, over 300 lawsuits have been filed against the Church by members who say they were "duped into paying exorbitant prices for vases, prayer beads or other religious objects, sometimes under pressure from church members who said their relatives would 'burn in hell' unless they donated." (Kevin Sutherland and Mary Jordan, "Once-Generous Japanese Become Disenchanted With Moon's Church," "The Washington Post," August 4, 1996.)
Given the Unification Church's totalitarian methods, why is the Moonie-supported Washington Times newspaper respected by mainstream politicians and journalists? Why don't powerful U.S. officials conduct a new investigation, including a look into George Bush's relationship with Moon? Moon funnels millions of dollars to rightwing political causes and provides "bodies" for conservative rallies. He helped fund the Contras. The religious right and Republican Party can use Moon's money and the "grassroots" support of his brainwashed legions. Republican Congressman Jim Leach was right. A Republican and religious right alliance with Moon can't be ethically justified. Religious freedom implies voluntary participation. The Unification Church recruits by deceiving, holds people against their will and uses standard brainwashing techniques. The U.S. government allows this in part because Moonies hide their primarily *political* agenda behind a banner of "freedom of religion." Moon is not about religion, but politics -- and a most corrupt, anti-democratic form of politics. The fact that he has any relationship whatsoever with George Bush, and the fact that Bush has given Moon a pass on his misdeeds, should give voters pause about backing George W.

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6

Thi Chi...you want proof?

by siegswife in

22 years ago

one thing you can do is go to the unification churches website and type in washington times.. http://www.unification.net/.

here's some reading for you in the meantime (bold added by me):.

http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm.

22 years ago

siegswife 22 years ago

Oh, you're referring to what I said a month or so ago regarding Rush Limbaugh and Bush being in cohoots with the rev moon. Today I was merely pointing out that the Washington Times is not a good source of unbiased information.

I don't have time right this minute, but later I'll go through my stuff and find the articles I have regarding the Bush/Moon connection, ok?

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