Thank you so much to everyone who shed light on the lying issue . I suppose that it does not occur to r&f witnesses that information is kept from them by COs and DOs because they do not NEED to know , and what about information kept from the COs and DOs by the GB because they do not NEED to know . When once a precidence is set and accepted as o.k. does no-one realise how dangerous that can be ? apparantly not .
Posts by jhine
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32Is the Truth so delicate?
by Socrateswannabe inthe gb brooks no questions or dissention.
their brand of truth seems quite delicate and incapable of standing up to scrutiny.
"the truth is incontrovertible.
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45
Apostates are narrow-minded victims of brainwashing who believe everything they read
by cedars inor so says the person who left this comment on jwsurvey.org.... what just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best.
this isnt just based on this page, but other pages ive read on this website.
while youre at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children.
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jhine
sd-7 can I ask you why Watchtower members will not look into things for themselves ? I do get the brainwashing bit ,but could you expand on that so that I can understand more . As I stated earlier (at length !!) I have repeatedly BEGGED my Watchtower friends to read the writings of some of the Early Church Fathers . I thought that this would be something that was not so hard as these very people are mentioned in the SYBITT book ,so in my obvious ignorance it seemed to me that that would be less threatening to them than suggesting going on an apostate website for instance . However all I get is that blank stare that I know means that they would rather chew their arm off that do that! AS someone who admits to having being paranoid of everything other than Watchtower in the past is it poss for you to explain this mindset more fully ?
Can you help me in any way to get past that barrier ? Also do you mnd if I ask what' s your current spiritual state ? It appears to me that many who figure out for themselves the truth about the Watchtower become quite ante any religion , is that so in your experience ? I don't mean to be a nusance I just really want to learn more .
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32
Is the Truth so delicate?
by Socrateswannabe inthe gb brooks no questions or dissention.
their brand of truth seems quite delicate and incapable of standing up to scrutiny.
"the truth is incontrovertible.
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jhine
is it true that a witness is allowed to lie when the person asking the question is not entitled to know the answer ie someone outside of the organisation ?I have read that somewhere and would like some clarification please .
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45
Apostates are narrow-minded victims of brainwashing who believe everything they read
by cedars inor so says the person who left this comment on jwsurvey.org.... what just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best.
this isnt just based on this page, but other pages ive read on this website.
while youre at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children.
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jhine
Lisa Rose , thank you for your posting , I was partly basing my repy to Tiktaalik on tha fact that Cedars had refered to the Watchtower as" still my church " on another thread , from this I obviously did infer that he is still on the inside looking out . That and reading too quickly did make me miss the point . Have slapped myself round the head a few times and offer humble appologies to Cedars.I am not always so stupid but am sincere in trying to witness to witnesses so yes please any tips on how to do this would be most welcome .
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45
Apostates are narrow-minded victims of brainwashing who believe everything they read
by cedars inor so says the person who left this comment on jwsurvey.org.... what just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best.
this isnt just based on this page, but other pages ive read on this website.
while youre at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children.
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jhine
Tiktaalik , Cedars does say that he is a JW and I asked some questions that I would really like answering :-
why do witnesses only check out Watchtower info in Watchtower publications?
why do they not feel free to read, lets say early Church Father literature for themselves ?
Cedars says " you think JW'S have been brainwashed , you make me laugh " that sounds like a defensive stance .
HE also says"there are clearly many of YOU who don't question, don't look at both sides and just believe in any hype " I told my story to show that I had clearly looked at both sides FOR MYSELF , independantly and without bias .
Yes, if someone wants to hold a set of beliefs that is their right , but at least know everything about the people and organisation promoting those beliefs . I genuinely feel that most JW's do not realise the extent to which they are hoodwinked by the Watchtower . Pardon me for trying to open their eyes . If, knowing the whole truth about the Watchtower, they still choose to follow that is their perogotive.
If you were going to buy a car from someone that I knew to be less than honest would I not be derelict in giving you that information ?
Why is it o.k for the Watchtower to openly slag off the church that I love (read any of their study leaflets ) but no-one is allowed to make any comment , however well backed up , about them ?
is this better? I am sorry that I appeared to be paragraphist !!! I just got carried away
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45
Apostates are narrow-minded victims of brainwashing who believe everything they read
by cedars inor so says the person who left this comment on jwsurvey.org.... what just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best.
this isnt just based on this page, but other pages ive read on this website.
while youre at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children.
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jhine
Cedars , I have to reply to your post , I just am not sure what to say so that you can understand my meaning . Many years ago becuse of circumstances in my life I did genuinley wonder if God was saying that I should become a witness . I had come to Christ with the help of some Baptists and had always had a Trinitarian belief . I then moved home and as I said through personal circumstances the people that I had most "religious" contact with were witnesses and a lot of what they said made some sense and they could always seemingly back up their teaching with scripture .They gave me a copy of the "Should You Believe In The Trinity ? book and it shocked me . Quotes were given from the ante -nicene fathers (among others ) which agreed with the witness stance that the idea of Trinity was a late addition to church theology and part of the false teaching which was predicted in the Bible. It upset me that my church had lied to me by telling me that Trinity was part of the original theology of the early church . So I did some digging and read some of the writings of the early church fathers mentioned Tertullian ect. Then I was shocked to find that all of these people were in fact totally pro Trinity and the quotes given were taken out of context or altered to make the people quoted "say " the opposite to what they actually were saying . This made me check more and I , as well as many others have found that the Watchtower society has a track record of mis - quotes . I had to ask how can a group that calls it self the truth deliberatley mis- quote or misrepresent peoples views to back its own up . It must be deliberate because they take great care cherry picking bits to print to prove their point . THis also indicated to me that they must know that their theology is wrong when they have to resort to such tactics . You say that witnesses are encouraged to check things out for themselves , but they (you) only check against other Watchtower sources , as far as I know . I have literally begged witnesses that I know to look at the original documents , which are readily available online to see for themselves , but they won't and it really is beyond me why not . If every word that comes from the Watchtower Society is trustworthy and true then simply by reading even just the original works of the early church fathers would indeed show that to be so and they could tell me to shut up and but out . Can you explain to me why witnesses think that checking teaching facts given by one group with other facts by that same group is considered sufficient . I am sooo glad that I did my own independant fact finding . I really do not mean to give offence to you , I am genuinley baffled that I cannot engage with my witness friends on a level playing field , only on a playing field defined by Watchtower markings . This is an honest account of my experiences , please accept it as such , I cannot say any differently .
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66
"Witness Patients Often Do Better" - Erm......
by snare&racket intook a peek at the new jw.org and soon got angry :(.
"witness patients often do better!".
how was i that dumb, are people that dumb?
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jhine
If following the "blood rules" in the bible is so important that people are expected to die for want of a transfusion then why do Witnesses eat non kosher meat ( meat with blood still in it ) . The original rules refered only to the eating of meat with the blood still in it because the blood of the animal was what took away sin . I know that in the NT some non Jewish believers were told to stick to this rule so as not to offend the Jewish brothers (and sisters ) . As far as I am aware it was not a blanket ban for all believers but a means by which to keep peace between believers in a certain location . If , however Witnesses feel the need to keep this rule in modern times should they not look at the original meaning and refrain from eating any meat with blood in it as per the OT instructions ?Why is it so important for the GB to push the extention of this rule pertaining to blood transfusions to the detriment of the original meaning which concerned animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins . Does it strike anyone as ironic that now the Watchtower seems to favour human sacrifice instead of animal sacrifice ?
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The story of Bo Juel Jensen - the man behind the Anti-Watchtower media campaign in Norway
by cedars inhi guys.
richard e. kelly has kindly contributed a great article to jwsurvey.org on the link below.... http://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/bo-juel-jensen-could-he-be-watchtowers-worst-nightmare.
richard tells the story of bo juel jensen, an ex-witness who has been doing marvellous work in raising awareness of watchtower child abuse mishandling in norway.. as with most child abuse victims, bo's story is a disturbing one.
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jhine
I applaud your courage and pray that you will see this through to the end and that yours and all the other cases of Watchtower bullying and hypocracy will get all the media coverage that they deserve
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JEHOVAH NEEDS YOUR MONEY FOR 2014!!!!!!!!
by DATA-DOG inhas anyone else recieved the letter from the gb about international conventions in 2014?
according to the letter the missionarys/order of full time servants desperately need to get to the conventions in their homeland.
so to accomplish this, jehovah needs 15 cents per publisher, per congregation for some months ( sorry i can't remember the exact length of time ).
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jhine
there is another thread about this showing part of the letter which is not to be read out or posted on the notice board . people have wondered about the fact that the amount raised would just about pay for the dammages awarded to Candace Conti !
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94
14 months after printing the "Steve and Selma" article, guess what the Society's latest Awake is about...
by cedars inyou guessed it.... .
http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=201304&output=html&pub=g&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.
cedars.
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jhine
Cedars, so the shunning works , you lose too much by leaving , but you don't fade either .Do you hope to transform from the inside or simply warn others of the danger of joining ?