Sirona

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Posts by Sirona

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  37

  What does the average Witness know?

  by Grunt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have to wonder what the average witness today knows?

  i guess they are under orders not to talk to anyone that might actually be able to inform them of any facts that are negative or unflattering to the society, but what have they found out anyway, through whatever means, even the publications?.

  1. do they know that russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914?

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  Sirona

  In Between Days:

  I remember seeing some quotes from scholars over on one of the ExJw sites - probably freeminds.org

  I will see if I can fish any out. The changes to scripture in the NWT are well documented - just take a look.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
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  40

  They acted without 2 witnesses

  by Sirona in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've only just been told of a case of suspected child abuse at the local hall.. the child (aged 4) was alone with the abuser.

  she told her mother, who told the elders.

  the elders and mother immediately informed the police, despite the fact that there was only one witness - the child.. then the elders proceeded to inform families in the congregation so that they can be on their guard.

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  Sirona

  Just wondering what everyone thinks should be done if there is suspected child abuse. We tell the WTS that the 2 witness rule is wrong, then we tell them that doing something is wrong.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
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  42

  From JW to Pagan

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.

  i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?

  being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.

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  Sirona

  Hi Sunchild

  Thanks I don't find myself bumping into pagans that much. Recently, I've joined up with a local pagan group and it just seemed to happen at the right time for me. I agree that its great to meet people who think along similar lines.

  Xander - you are right, pagans don't tend to look different. Occasionally you'll see someone wearing a pentagram or something, but generally its hard to tell. You get so many different types of pagan too.

  Comf. As humans we cannot *define* reality because we can only possibly see things through our perceptive filters. The true "way things are" may never be known by any human being, because that human being cannot turn off their perceptive filter.

  In this sense, OUR reality is based on OUR perception. Other than that, we can't have a clue what reality is...all we have is OUR reality.

  I enjoyed reading your list from the net! LOL! While its true that there are many websites which give such information, that does not mean that that is representative of pagans. It means that you've come across some funny sites.

  Right. Spells have nothing to do with wicca. Got it.

  Firstly the word spell is often misunderstood and your examples don't show what a spell is at all. Please understand the following points

  1. Most pagans never do "spells" - neo-paganism is a belief system - a religion.

  2. One can be a wiccan without ever doing a spell (see the above point). However, should one choose to do a spell, in my definition of spell, I am PRAYING. In some ways it is similar to how a catholic will light a candle and say a prayer. I would simply use items and ritual to focus myself and I would pray to the goddess. "a prayer with props".

  Spells are not the stuff of Harry Potter. I'd rather change the terminology that is used with regard to earth-based religions. E.g. the word "Witch" should not be used IMO due to its negative connotations, neither should the word "spell" (since people always think of a wizard with a wand).

  You seem to be confusing pagans with people who make money from trying to sell "spells" to people.

  Belief in spirit creatures. Belief in unseen forces that you can control by standing a certain way at a certain time and chanting certain words while holding certain objects

  Comf, I really think that if you're going to argue about paganism or Wicca, then you should at least know what you are talking about. You simplify something that you don't understand by making the comment above. Why don't you try standing a certain way, at a certain time, with certain objects (hell, why don't you get the info off one of your so called pagan sites) and then see if it works? I can guarantee you that it won't because that is not what someone is doing in ritual and / or spellwork.

  Why not pray?

  Erm, I am. I don't think that my method of prayer is anyone elses business.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
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  3

  Imperfect vs evil

  by joelbear in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  if a jehovah's witness does something bad, evil, or shady, they are described as being imperfect.. if a non jehovah's witness does something bad, evil or shady they are wicked and under the control of satan and his demons.. if i've heard it once i've heard it 1000 times.. witnesses believe they are specially acquitted of their sins while the rest of the world is not covered by jesus' ransom sacrifice.. they use a few basic points to elevate themselves above the rest of humanity.. 1. they carry god's name.. 2. they don't fight in wars (love among themselves).

  3. they have true doctrines (hell, soul, no trinity).

  4. separate from the world (no birthdays, xmas, voting).

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  Sirona

  Good points, Joel.

  Have you noticed how they all hide each others sins too? The recent child abuse scandal at our local hall wasn't mentioned to me by ANY of my JW family - I had to hear it from someone else. Why? Because they don't want me knowing what goes on...they have to present this "perfect" face to everyone who is not JW.

  Its called "not bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name" - in other words "hide any scandals, stick up for the brothers and make it look like the worldly people's fault".

  When JWs sin, its a case of them being so imperfect...etc. and if I dare raise my voice in annoyance, I'm called a sinner - spawn of Satan!

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 
  42

  From JW to Pagan

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.

  i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?

  being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.

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  Sirona

  Hi Comf,

  So you think reality is

  The way things really are.

  The way things are to WHOM? We all experience things differently and see life differently. Reality is different from person to person. So I expect you might mean "the way things are" for you?

  For folks who want to know what's really going on, who don't want to be deceiving themselves about the practical usefulness and purpose of certain ritualistic actions or the state of the unseen, yes, it's bad.

  You seem to be assuming an awful lot here, Comf.

  1. That "whats really going on" can be defined, or that "whats really going on" is different from what pagans do. I know of many pagans who appreciate that ritual is mostly to do with our own psyche and it affects US more than anything else. For instance, if we ritually remember our dead loved ones, we are helping ourselves to cope with their loss. In that sense, a pagan knows "whats really going on" and doesn't expect some miraculous thunderbolt during the ceremony.

  2. You assume that there is deception involved in assessing the practical usefulness or purpose of ritual. Perhaps to some degree we all practice self deception. We tell ourselves that we act a certain way for a certain reason, just to make ourselves feel better, or just to ignore something difficult to cope with. That is human nature. With regard to the usefulness of ritual - well then that depends on the individual. Personally, I find it very useful. The purpose of it is something that I decide before I start. So I can't see where the deception is. However, if you had a charlatan telling people that a ritual will provide them with XYZ then that would be deception, but it would not be a reflection of paganism, rather, the individual.

  3. The state of the unseen. What do you mean by that exactly?

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 
  40

  They acted without 2 witnesses

  by Sirona in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've only just been told of a case of suspected child abuse at the local hall.. the child (aged 4) was alone with the abuser.

  she told her mother, who told the elders.

  the elders and mother immediately informed the police, despite the fact that there was only one witness - the child.. then the elders proceeded to inform families in the congregation so that they can be on their guard.

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  Sirona

  Bang, the child is 4 years old. They were in a bedroom together, and she described exactly what he did.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 
  40

  They acted without 2 witnesses

  by Sirona in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've only just been told of a case of suspected child abuse at the local hall.. the child (aged 4) was alone with the abuser.

  she told her mother, who told the elders.

  the elders and mother immediately informed the police, despite the fact that there was only one witness - the child.. then the elders proceeded to inform families in the congregation so that they can be on their guard.

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  Sirona

  Amnesian:

  I don't thinkthe first accusation of molestation (apparently 6 years ago) was from a child in the congregation. The elders didn't have that child as a witness so there was only one witness on this occasion. It was the accused mother who brought the previous allegation to light (she'd felt guilty about not informing the cong. previously).

  Sirona
• 
  42

  From JW to Pagan

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.

  i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?

  being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.

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  Sirona

  Spidermonkey : Welcome! Like you, I don't think that my move to paganism was a reaction against the JWs. I still wonder whether some may see paganism as their way out of the WT bonds. Generally, though, I think that exJWs consider their faith perhaps more than some others who were never part of a controlling religion.

  Gently Feral

  For me, paganism has been more like nutritional therapy. Spending far too much time as a jaydub starved me of all the good things paganism supplies: beauty, art, a huge field for the imagination, freedom, pleasure, and respect for other people and their beliefs.

  I agree with that completely.

  Intro: you seem to have it

  COMF

  like Christian religions, is just another powerless superstition sidetracking humans from reality

  What is reality? Some would say that our own reality is all we know, and that there is no ONE reality. Anyway, assuming that there is a "reality" there is a chance that paganism does sidetrack us from it to some degree. Is that bad? Also, I don't think that ANY faith is powerless. Superstition doesn't enter into my faith either.

  SS: isn't it liberating to finally know that we can follow our own path spiritually, without guilt?

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 
  28

  personality test

  by BATHORY in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  g'day cyber junkets.. now this personality test is good, very good.. i would be very interested to see the results from most posters.. i came up a type 5, the investigator.

  so accurate.. i can see simon as type 9, englishman as the definative 7, alan .

  fur-burger is a natural 8 ( with a definite twist of 6 ), princess is a 4 through and through and naeblis, well....he thinks he is a 3 but he is really a hardcore 5.. well was i close ???.

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  Sirona

  Scored highly on type one and type two

  Type One
  The Reformer
  The principled, idealistic type. Ones are conscientious and ethical, with a strong sense of right and wrong. They are teachers, crusaders, and advocates for change: always striving to improve things, but afraid of making a mistake. Well-organized, orderly, and fastidious, they try to maintain high standards, but can slip into being critical and perfectionistic. They typically have problems with resentment and impatience. At their Best: wise, discerning, realistic, and noble. Can be morally heroic.

  Type Two
  The Helper
  The caring, interpersonal type. Twos are empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted. They are friendly, generous, and self-sacrificing, but can also be sentimental, flattering, and people-pleasing. They are well-meaning and driven to be close to others, but can slip into doing things for others in order to be needed. They typically have problems with possessiveness and with acknowledging their own needs. At their Best: unselfish and altruistic, they have unconditional love for others.

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 
  40

  They acted without 2 witnesses

  by Sirona in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've only just been told of a case of suspected child abuse at the local hall.. the child (aged 4) was alone with the abuser.

  she told her mother, who told the elders.

  the elders and mother immediately informed the police, despite the fact that there was only one witness - the child.. then the elders proceeded to inform families in the congregation so that they can be on their guard.

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  Sirona

  Simon,

  I'm inclined to agree with you there. The elders have told people he is under investigation as far as I know. Obviously, people are automatically going to think he's guilty. This is probably why the family have moved congregations.

  How can the elders strike a balance in these matters? I would want to know if someone had been *accused* in the congregation even if there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **