g'day folks,.
just testing - nothing to write home about.
i have heard you guys are having a good time, i've been skimming through the posts - some very interesting stuff.
Welcome Unklebruce. I just commented to someone recently that I considered you a "freakin' literary genius". I realize in my conversational haste that I erred, what I meant was, "freak of a literary genus".
But either way, a fine compliment.
Welcome to all the (nice) folks from h20; Third, Danny, Ingles-mon, et al.
Six- Koncecrated klass
Edited by - SixofNine on 18 February 2001 18:56:19
i have noticed we have several "active" jws on this board, and some of their comments really bother me.. when i was active, when the wtbts said "don't associate with apostates or worldly people" i didn't.
when they said "spend more time in the ministry" i went to school, held down a job.
and aux.
No Wendy, it is not just you.
Xandits attitudes are freakish. For him to say that his viewpoints are more the norm in the org is either purposely false, or delusional. I will believe the latter, for now.
I have been surprised at many of the friends in the org I have talked to over the past couple of years. The places they have drawn the lines, so to speak, in regards to what the will or will not try to "get away with", betrays a people who just do not think deeply or believe passionately. Except to the extent that thier beliefs are primarily based on what they want to believe, what they "feel" about matters.
I think some of us did take it all more seriously, did believe it more passionately. I suppose, since it is ostensibly life and death matters, that was appropriate.
Maybe that is why we are here, and they, for the most part, are there.
Edited by - SixofNine on 16 February 2001 13:22:52
i have a little theory buzzing around in the back of my mind.
it was triggered by trevors comments re the low self esteem that is endured by many jw youngsters.. i`m wondering if the singing of kingdom songs can actually make you feel depressed and worthless.
i know it might seem a strange idea at first, but see if my reasoning doesn`t make at least some sense.. i frequently see the tv ad for linguaphone, the language learning course, that uses your repetition of foreign language phrases spoken along with a cassette recording.
I know my ex had a childhood ritual (she developed it with her brothers) of snickering when ever we sang "press on undettered".
undie terred. I can't read that the same way ever again.
tolerance.
i think the appearance of the now infamous danielle gives us reason for pause.
i admit that at first i took her at face value which is what we are all supposed to do.
I think I see a bigger picture emerging, for me, about this issue. I am a skeptic by nature. I like to think it is because I care about cold hard truth so much. I like to think that my skepticism is healthy skepticism, a reflection of my honest personality. Still, for all I know, it may be pure nature, and very little nuture. My father is a bit of a skeptic as well.
But I bought into the WTBS 100% for most of my life. And stayed vested probably 95% even after I saw some glaring inconsistancies. I now believe it was all a lie, a fraud, a sham, a joke. How could this cynic have missed it for so long? The fact that the majority of the perpetrators are sincere probably helped.
Still, I don't think I have ever been fooled by an urban legend. I guess the difference is that I have never felt more than just a little guilty for questioning the veracity of a human when they try to sell me the absurd (save for when that human has convinced me from childhood that they are passing Gods word on to me).
And yet many, perhaps most, people are taken in by urban legends. I think urban legends, and religions, and Danielle have a lot in common. Not the least of which is that they are believed for the reason that on some level, the believer wants to believe.
What is that great Carl Sagan quote, talking about JW's and the 1914-no armageddon bust? He essentially said, "convicing people to believe the palpably untrue is the chief occupation of religions."
Why would anyone want to believe in Danielle? I wanted to because she looked like a dominating sexy redhead. But I think more likely for the board in general, she embodied a charactature of all that is wrong with our former religion. Rediculous in the face of reason, how wonderful would it have been to force someone like that to see the light of real truth, or, conversely, to hold them up as an example of how hard headedly silly the "faithful slave" has been.
Gloria? I'd be willing to bet that she was the real deal. And I don't think our reaction hastened her inevitable departure from the WTBS(I'm betting on 2.3 years, now. Anyone want to join the pool? I've got Big Ray being gone by 2003). Had we been the cunning, sneaky apostates the WT society makes us out to be, we could have likely sucked her into questioning without her even knowing. I'm not even sure I believe that would be a bad thing to do anymore.
But I don't think very many of us have the energy to keep up a facade anymore. I think we are for the most part just to damn honest.
i was recently talking to a friend, an ex-admin from witnet, who said that they felt i was 'owed' an apology because of an offensive remark made on this board.. i didn't give it too much credence, since from time to time we all say things we shouldn't, but it did start a dialogue between us about things we would apologise for if we could.. on a really 'general' note, i mentioned i would apologise to every householder to whom i might have came across as being god's finger on their doorstep.
for people who are supposed to be humble, when you are told every day of your life that you have the 'truth,' it becomes obvious that everyone else has a 'lie.
' therefore, it's not too hard to picture yourself being sanctimonious at the door while preaching the gospel of our lord jesus.. i really can't comment on what he said because i would reveal his identity and don't have his permission to do so, but suffice it to say he wanted to apologise for pushing off his personal preferences on others (which he didn't even believe but which were being taught as the word of god).
Lisa, ex witnet admin? In that case he is no doubt a braindead fellow who is always on the wrong side of everything, including the pond and the Catholic/Protestant issue . An ex-elder to boot eh? Man, that has to be hard to live with.
I never took the ms/elder route, I'd like to think it is because of my unfailing character, but more likely, had anyone taken the time and initiative to "groom" me, I probably would have been led right along, and gotten quite used to the status. In any case, I am glad I never was, as that keeps me from being quite as "beat-guilty" as some of my fellow ex's.
The irony though, is that I ended up with a bible student (one of only 3 or so in my entire career) just as I was seeing the "real" truth. It really made me think, and probably hastened my departure. I realized there was so very little about the "truth" that I felt at all confident was the "truth". Fortunately, I don't have to apologize to him.
I'd like to apologize to Richard Clintsman for being a complete jerk and not attending your wifes funeral. I don't blame you one bit for throwing the brochures I gave you into the trash unread.
Edited by - SixofNine on 14 February 2001 0:46:36
my kid brother, tom, was born to witness parents.
he was something of a surprise package and my parents were delighted.
my father said that tom was:.
Xandit,
No one said a thing.
Now I know you're lyin'.
i'm not sure i'm putting this in the right place.
i'm even a little hesitant to do this but i have finally decided to try, for a while at least.
a lot of the comments that i have read seem somewhat harsh toward the witnesses.
Hi Gloria
SixofNine, thank you for your reply. You say the truth will set me free but I have been taught all my life that I AM in the truth.
Sigh...me too. Really hard to get your mind around the idea that we may have been wrong all our lives.
Check out the following LIST of WT quotes I found:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.3dom.freeserve.co.uk/main.htm
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm
It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to Carefully
Study the preceeding LIST, which comprises truly fine scriptural food from
its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to confirm whether what
was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and if not, not to
circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT teachings against
the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical examination of your
faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it is your duty to
examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov 15 1963 p688}, that
you should actively examine your own religion {The Truth That Leads To
Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you should check and
examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that your religion
was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT Aug 1 1978 p12}, that
you should to be willing to submit everything to scrutiny {Awake! Aug 22
1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed mind {WT Nov 22 1984 p3-4},
that you should actively refer to the older publications {WT Jun 15 1985
p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine other religions with an
open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are encouraged to exhibit
freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please follow the advice of
the WTBTS as just given, and study this LIST very carefully. "You will know
the Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice indeed!
Edited by - SixofNine on 8 February 2001 7:16:54
i'm not sure i'm putting this in the right place.
i'm even a little hesitant to do this but i have finally decided to try, for a while at least.
a lot of the comments that i have read seem somewhat harsh toward the witnesses.
Danielle, I just read about someone who got a brand new WT cd-rom and was itching to put it to bad use.
hmmmmm??
i'm not sure i'm putting this in the right place.
i'm even a little hesitant to do this but i have finally decided to try, for a while at least.
a lot of the comments that i have read seem somewhat harsh toward the witnesses.
Welcome Gloria.
I always wondered why that never applied to us, as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I asked an elder this once and he told me that it’s because we have the truth and we don’t need to look anywhere else. What do you think about this?
I think your world is about to be rocked.
Take it from someone who was in your spot just a few short months ago, it is not a bad thing. The truth really will set you free.
please, stop right now with the trying to prove that danielle is not a woman.. if some folks' god can be a benevolent, extreeee happy, fat black woman, then danielle can be a hot nasty redhead who wants to dominate while she facilitates my return to the narrow path.
Please, stop right now with the trying to prove that Danielle is not a woman.
If some folks' God can be a benevolent, extreeee happy, fat black woman, then Danielle can be a hot nasty redhead who wants to dominate while she facilitates my return to the narrow path.
