Posts by Skeptic

105

Athiests and Christmas?

by clash_city_rockers in

i was just thinking.

since christmas is about the birth of christ, i know dec 25 was not his birthday, probly born around late sept or early oct. i guess he wanted to be born right before the baseball playoffs and world series, just kidding.

it was the early christian church that appointed dec 25th.

Skeptic

Perfect explaination, larc. It is strange how some people on this thread don't get such a simple concept. I'll bet they ponder how someone can be a JW and yet be a fornicator. After all, if someone attends a Kingdom Hall at least once a year, they must believe all of the JW teachings, right? Obviously, they are incapable of attending a Kingdom Hall for any other reason, right?

Now to look at the amusing things said about me:

I see Sentamentality rules over "Clear Thinking"

Sometimes, yes. I am human afterall. And what is wrong with that? Who said I have to follow some strict atheistic lifestyle?

Sure you can do as you please as far as worshiping religious holidays are so, but you are being inconsistent with your atheist dogma which according to its teachings and assertions that these religious holidays dont have a right to exists.

Who says I have to be consistent at all? It is my life and I live it as I choose. I am not out to convert the world to my viewpoint, nor am I militant about anything. I have nothing to prove to anyone, including myself.

I like the emotions Christianity invokes and I am willing to attend and participate in church services on occasion. That church service was a Xmas Eve candlelight service outdoors. I enjoyed it as did my "family".

I live in a country where there are Muslims and Christians. During Ramadan, I do not eat lunch in front of my Muslim friends out of respect for them and their beliefs. When a Christian asks me to say Grace, I do. Why? Out of politeness and respect for them. Do I think I will be heard? No. But I make the best prayer I can anyway. Some atheists and some Christians cannot handle that I will willingly say a prayer, but I am not accountable to them. I am not a militant person, and I see no reason not to use basic manners and show basic respect for another person's belief system. If other people cannot handle that, it is their problem, not mine.

Your can celebrate Christmas and violate and go against the atheist credo and dogma that there is no god or you can live consistently with what you vehemently and rigorously are passionate about and that is your dogmatic claim that there is no god.

Or I can live as I choose, irregardless of what make-believe, false, or true Gods may think. Or irregardless of what anyone else may think. I am no longer a JW where every decision I make has someone's life in the balance. I no longer have to worry about someone being stumbled due to my example. If someone is stumbled or confused because I celebrate Christmas, they have bigger problems than me.

I would be surprised if half the people who celebrate Christmas do it because of Christ. Christmas was a pagan holiday turned Christian. Now, for most, it is a Christian holiday turned secular. If celebrating Christmas always means we are celebrating Christ, then JWs are right: those who celebrate Christmas are still celebrating pagan gods.

Christmas is a tradition in our country. It has pagan origins, and it has Christian roots. I like that about it. And I celebrate it because it is a tradition, and because it bonds people together. I couldn't care less about whether my celebrating Christmas is consistent behaviour on my part or not. That is the beauty of being an atheist. I can do whatever the hell I want.

Richard

Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 18:15:10

Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 18:26:6

13

How have you rooted out the WT (harmful) doctrines

by Marcos in

jw
friends

when i left the wt i basically never looked back.

i decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.. here is the problem in my case.

after all these years, i have finally been faced with some situations that i had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie.

Skeptic

I am beginning to realize that much of my behavior is still STRONGLY influenced by WT thinking.

I realized that the WTS will influence my thinking for the rest of my life. I have tried to root out the negative stuff and so far have been successful. Though I am not consciously aware of their control, I sense (feel) control at a deep subconscious level. To the best of my knowledge, such control will not have a negative imapct on me, and I don't worry about it.

My question is, how have you confronted and rooted out ideas that might have affected your life in a negative of less than useful way?

For the most part, yes.

I see the need to research my beliefs and attitudes. I would just like to get some input regarding ways you all have dealt with these things.

SPAZnik has good advice. Go at your own pace, and take your time.

Think for yourself. It is your life view and moral outlook you are designing, so it should be your decisions not someone's elses.

Study alternative views and the reasons behind them. For the blood issue, go to the JWRB (?) site and read the chapter on blood transfusions in In Search of Christian Freedom.

If you are studying the morality of homosexuality, don't visualize yourself doing homosexual acts. Study nature, like the bonabos [sic]. Study some of the gentics studies on homosexuality. Talk to some of the homosexuals on this site. Jim is cool, as is his "A Common Bond" website. JoelBear and John are a cool guys as well.

When studying the Bible, I found one idea to be handy. If the Bible is infallible, objective data will not contradict it. A rock is incapable of knowing if the Bible is infallible or not. But a rock, or a dead tree, can tell you if the Bible is infallible.

Learn how to view things scientificially. Learn good logic and thinking abilities. There are sites that will tell you how to identify bunk. Skeptic magazine is good for this, as are some of the atheistic websites.

Above all, pick and choose as you please. It is your life you are affecting not mine. Try not to tie yourself to one line of thought (such as "The Bible is the Word of God" or "There can be no God") until you have reasons for believing as you do.

Research cults and High Control groups. Learn what is normal for a person who has left a high control group and how they can help themselves after leaving. Studying Bible-based cults will help you with a lot of the JW stuff.

Lots of this can be obtained through search engines on the Net. Amazing, JanH, AlanF, and Farkel have written some really good stuff.

This is alot to absorb. Take your time, and do it at your own pace. Most importantly, get information and think things over. And have fun! This should not be a chore.

Most important of all, don't be afraid to reach your own conclusions about things.

Richard

Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 17:38:52

47

Honest Opinion, Please

by Windchaser in

jw
friends

i'm not very craftsy, but i have a thing about crocheting dishcloths.

it's a basket-weave design and i have mentioned in the past how it helps me to keep sane.

i have been suicidal lately and thought, why not send these dishcloths out to my friends and they will always have a little piece of me to be remembered by.

Skeptic

Send the dishcloths. But the best gift you can give is you. So stay alive, OK?

Richard

11

Employee of the Year

by Bendrr in

jw
friends

no, not me this year.

i won last year.

i just wanted to talk about this year, it's bothering me.

Skeptic

Things like Employee Awards are often subject to abuse and political issues.

My boss continually got $500 bonuses for being part of money-saving efforts. The reason? Another employee came up with the ideas (and did all the work) but needed his signature before they could be implemented. I am not complaining...the employee always got his/her $500 as well, so he/she was never cheated out of their share.

Another time, a bonus system was introduced. Each employee in a department would get a monetary bonus if the department exceeded certain goals. Our department built computers boards. Another department, the systems people took our boards and built the final computer from them. This was done on a Just In Time basis, so very little stock was kept in warehouses.

Everyone worked their asses off. Having seen many bonus systems come and go, I never our departament would not see a cent. I was right. However, the systems people got huge bonuses.

Our department rightly asked, "How could they be so productive so as to get huge bonuses when we are their MAIN supplier? How could they build product without us doing our part? Why did we get nothing?" The answer, of course, was politics. They submitted low goals while ours were aggressive. I personally found that weird because our department as good at game-playing as the rest of the plant.

It sucks when a good person does not get an award and a lesser person does. But that is the stuff of life. What companies don't realize is that the good employees eventually leave. Not that many employers really care about that either.

Richard

14

Feb1,2003 Question from readers

by hannibal in

"why does the bible say that a person should scream if theatened with rape".

has anyone posted this yet?

its rather unbeleivable.

Skeptic

I cannot comprehend them clinging to this in view of how badly this makes them look and I don't understand how they constantly refer to these obscure parts of the law that was supposedly done away with.

Good point. They pick and choose throughout the Mosiac Law. But really, the Law is obsolete.

These types of teachings are what happens when people get their morality from a book instead of thinking for themselves.

Richard

2

Catholic Church heading for BANKRUPTCY?

by Smiles in

if the catholic church does go bankrupt, what would that mean for the jw doctrine of the 'destruction of babylon the great'?

especially considering that the catholic church makes up an enormous percentage of "babylon the great" and that the catholic church has received the brunt of jw castigation over the years... .

if sexual abuse scandal could bankrupt the catholic church with all its great wealth, what could sexual abuse scandal do to the far less wealthy wt society?

Skeptic

If the Catholic Church does go bankrupt, what would that mean for the JW doctrine of the 'destruction of Babylon the Great'?

It means nothing. Individual Roman Catholic orders may go bankrupt, but the Roman Catholic church as a whole will be fine.

Businesses are set up the same way. They are broken into pieces from a corporation/legal standpoint as this reduces financial liability. This is easy to set up.

That way, when they screw up and get sued bigtime, only pieces of the empire fall, not the whole thing.

The WTS is now set up in much the same manner. By separating assets into a different corporation, the only parts that can be sued are the parts that have no assets. As long at the corporation that handles assets has nothing to do with other JWs, the WTS assets are completely safe.

Newbridge Corporation does this. All of its buildings are owned by "another" company. If Newbridge messes up, you cannot get "its" buildings.

Richard

1

Hum a new camp fire song ?

by Xandria in

jw
friends

for those with a cynical outlook.

sure to ranckle a few feathers .

"let's all sing along..." .

Skeptic

Xandria,

I agree. Bombing Iraq at this time makes no sense to me at all. I suspect the real reason for wanting to bomb Iraq is different from the one told the public. I would not be surprised if it is related to the control of oil and oil prices. This would not be the first time the public was fooled by the President into doing things that made the Bush oil empire richer.

The U.S. could have easily killed Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War, and that would have made sense. My Muslim friends tell me that Saddam Hussein was not removed after the Gulf War because the U.S. needed someone strong enough to control Iraq's surrounding Middle Eastern nations, but someone whom the U.S. could control. If this latest drum-beating is not about oil, it is about controlling the Middle East.

BTW, you are a hell of a song writer. You should publish that one. I wonder what the public's reaction would be if you did.

Richard

11

Love Story

by ESTEE in

this was first posted on sep 19, 2002 18:47 by jim_tx under marriage & retirement totally happy in your marriage .

recently divorced - after 21 years (give or take).

was not happy in that relationship.

Skeptic

Estee_TX,

I am so very sorry. I personally know the pain you feel because I have gone through it. If you want someone to talk to, email me and I will send you my contact information.

SixOfNine, I find your remarks to be terribly insensitive considering a lady has obviously just had her heart broken.

Geez, and thought internet romances always worked out.

Actually, they normally do not. Though some work out quite well. The most critical point is when the couple first meets in real life.

Long Distance Relationships are very tough at best and have special challenges. International ones, like Canadian/American ones, have even more challenges. That is why I tell any Americans my little "Marriage Talk" immediately. So they can have some idea what they are getting themselves into before any feelings get too strong. It is my attempt at reducing her chances of heartache.

I personally recommend that everyone not enter into Internet relationships. [That said, I am willing to enter into them, but I know what to expect.] The problem is, when you met someone so special, it is hard to resist. And emotions grow deep very quickly on the Net for some reason. Maybe part of it is that it is easy to hide one's bad points on the Net. Maybe it is that in real life, one can find points of incompatiblity quicker.

People who think one cannot fall in love on the Internet are fooling themselves. The Net allows one to connect almost directly with the brain. And the brain is the part of us that loves. Windrider and I fell in love on the Net, and had a few beautiful years. Sadly, it ended.

Estee_TX, I am so sorry it ended. I truly do empathize and know what you are going through. Though some here have chosen to judge you, I certainly do not. I have been there, and know others who have been as well. I hope that time heals your heart, and that you will find a lasting love.

Richard

Edited by - Skeptic on 17 December 2002 17:59:37

Edited by - Skeptic on 17 December 2002 19:21:19

30

Would You, Could You, Marry Your Wife Again?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

a couple of years back, 2 friends of ours decided that they would like to have their marriage vows renewed in our local church.

the main reason behind this was that they had married abroad some years back, and they thought that a sort of "second wedding" would be a nice thing for the mums and dads who had missed out on the original.

it was fine, very enjoyable.. hmm, i got to thinking, her ladyship and i did not marry in church, but settled for a registry office bash because of parental jw pressure, and also, because i had been married before it was, back then, very difficult to obtain a church wedding if one had been divorced.

Skeptic

So there you go. I guess she has a point. Is she right, I wonder? Does a re-affirmation of marriage vows send out a clear signal that all is not well?

My first soul mate re-affirmed her marriage vows with her hubby. They did not have a good marriage. They were two very nice people who simply did not love each other.

That said, re-affirming marriage vows is a tradition in the Catholic Church. It is done after a certain number of years of marriage. I think it is a beautiful tradition, and can be a sign of great love for each other.

Richard

105

Athiests and Christmas?

by clash_city_rockers in

i was just thinking.

since christmas is about the birth of christ, i know dec 25 was not his birthday, probly born around late sept or early oct. i guess he wanted to be born right before the baseball playoffs and world series, just kidding.

it was the early christian church that appointed dec 25th.

Skeptic

Aztec has made many good points here. Especially her views on the consumerist holiday and the Winter Solstice.

BTW, I love the humor in this thread!

Some of the Christians posting here have no problem taking a pagan holiday and making it a Christian one. But they have a problem with atheists taking a Christian holiday and making it a family holiday. That is not clear thinking.

It would seem rather silly for an atheist to be singing "Joy to the World" or "Hark the Angels Sing", wouldn't it?

I have done exaclty that as an atheist. Windrider wanted me to attend a church service with her on Xmas eve, and I gladly did. I got right into it, too. It was wonderful. Stirred up a lot of great emotions.

Just because someone attends the Memorial at the Kingdom Hall does not mean they share the JW's beliefs.

Christmas is a tradition in our country, and one I enjoy. To me it is a family time that has its origins back in pagan times. Some of the traditions are religious, some arent. Both are fine with me. Just because I follow some of those traditions does not mean that I have suddenly become a Christian. If it did, then it would mean almost all Christians are really pagans. And the JW numbers are about three times what the WTS presently claims.

Some day I would love to celebrate the Winter Solstice. I have no idea how it is done, but I would love to do it anyway.

If I visit a Muslim country, I would love to celebrate Ramadan. I actually considered that even when I was a JW.

As an atheist, I am free to pick and choose what traditions and customs I want to follow.

Richard

Edited by - Skeptic on 17 December 2002 14:28:35