Lets say that in order to get to the people responsable for wanting harm to you or your nation,you may have to take the chance of killing innocent people?
Is it then justified?
What if to keep people from your side safe you use tactics which increase the chance of harm to innocent people on the other side?
Posts by sleepy
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19Is the kiling of people in war justifiable to you?
by sleepy inhow do you feel about the killing of people in war ?especially those who do not share you ideals and there fore may encroach on your rights if they had authority over you?.
most of us having been witnesses would have justified opposers of god dying at armageddon because we believed they if left alive would ruin life for everyone else.. so if a political party or another nation gained power other you country that acted contrary to your beliefs to such a degree you though they would ruin or life or life style would you kill them in war?
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sleepy
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20
Does our little crusade matter to the world?
by sleepy indoes our little crusade matter to the world?.
considering jw's make up such a small part of the worlds population to what extent do our beefs with the organisation matter to anyone unconnected?.
should our opinions of witness beliefs concern people more than witness themselves .should everyone have the right to make up there own mind and chose to be witnesses without us interfereing?.
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sleepy
Anewperson
"What I think is you'd like to steer us away from publicising the WTS's coverup policy regarding child molestation by sewing doubts that doing so will have an impact and is good. To which I say, nuts."Eh?
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20
Does our little crusade matter to the world?
by sleepy indoes our little crusade matter to the world?.
considering jw's make up such a small part of the worlds population to what extent do our beefs with the organisation matter to anyone unconnected?.
should our opinions of witness beliefs concern people more than witness themselves .should everyone have the right to make up there own mind and chose to be witnesses without us interfereing?.
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sleepy
Does our little crusade matter to the world?
considering JW's make up such a small part of the worlds population to what extent do our beefs with the organisation matter to anyone unconnected?
Should our opinions of witness beliefs concern people more than witness themselves .should everyone have the right to make up there own mind and chose to be witnesses without us interfereing?
Have the witnesses done anything bad enought to warrent world wide attention from the media ?
What do you think? -
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Anyone remmeber the siamese twin and other dubious
by sleepy inanyone remmeber the siamese twin and other dubious stories given in talks or from bethal boys on leave?.
the story of the siamese twins coming into the truth was well known to be fraudulent in or area.the tale is basiclly (with lots of other details that i cant remmeber but which make it really silly) that there was in some land a pair of siamese twins one comes into the truth and the other opposes her with the resulting difficulties of being joined to your persecuter.. but on a sunday a brother came from another hall to give the public talk and told this story in all seriousness to the entire congregation, this story took a good five to ten minutes to tell and we all had to sit through with a straight face.. i wonder how many experiences on the assemblies and in the mags are similar in truthfulness?
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sleepy
Anyone remmeber the siamese twin and other dubious stories given in talks or from Bethal boys on leave?
The story of the siamese twins coming into the truth was well known to be fraudulent in or area.The tale is basiclly (with lots of other details that I cant remmeber but which make it really silly) that there was in some land a pair of siamese twins one comes into the truth and the other opposes her with the resulting difficulties of being joined to your persecuter.
But on a sunday a brother came from another hall to give the public talk and told this story in all seriousness to the entire congregation, this story took a good five to ten minutes to tell and we all had to sit through with a straight face.
I wonder how many experiences on the assemblies and in the mags are similar in truthfulness? -
19
Is the kiling of people in war justifiable to you?
by sleepy inhow do you feel about the killing of people in war ?especially those who do not share you ideals and there fore may encroach on your rights if they had authority over you?.
most of us having been witnesses would have justified opposers of god dying at armageddon because we believed they if left alive would ruin life for everyone else.. so if a political party or another nation gained power other you country that acted contrary to your beliefs to such a degree you though they would ruin or life or life style would you kill them in war?
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sleepy
How do you feel about the killing of people in war ?Especially those who do not share you ideals and there fore may encroach on your rights if they had authority over you?
Most of us having been witnesses would have justified opposers of God dying at Armageddon because we believed they if left alive would ruin life for everyone else.
So if a political party or another nation gained power other you country that acted contrary to your beliefs to such a degree you though they would ruin or life or life style would you kill them in war? -
15
Will we ever find the magic bullet.
by sleepy inlets just face it humans are odd.. nearly all here are proof of it.. we were able at one time to believe so fully in an idea that we gave our lives to it , and now we dont.. although this subject has been discussed many times before it is something that frustrates me , big time.. well we all at one time thought we knew it all.
the meaning of life the real history of human kind why we die why there is suffering and many more of lifes mysteries were plain and simple to us.. gradually came the realisation that things were not as we had thought.. what was once so obvious was now so obviously wrong.. so how do humans manage to believe fervently on issues that to others make no sense?.
is there a magic explanation or piece of logic that can convince any witness with a functioning mind the error of their beliefs?.
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sleepy
Teejay
Thank you for your obsevations.
"i]We desire food when our body through chemical reactions gives us a physical message in our gut. Just try getting someone who doesn't feel hungery to eat. It is a very difficult task. [/i]I suppose you said this to show that humans act only when there is an emotional response or need. After giving the matter more thought, you don't really believe it, do you? It's not a very good analogy."
Actually it wasn't the point , but I should have made it clearer.
I was showing how phyiscal urgings get us to do things.The key word was "desire" and "feel" you must have seen in my post the refrence to eating because we know we will be hungery soon this is use of logic but this logic is used mainly to prepare your meal ,the actual eating requires you to feel hungery and you body to physically readjust itself by chemical reactions to recieve food.
If you use logic to prepear your meal when you know you need it but dont FEEL hungery most people will find it difficult to eat.
Also it is still the knowledge of how we will feel or how it will effect us that helps motivate us to prepear a meal.This knowledge will generate an emotional response in us.
You may not always be aware of it but often we do things because or body promps us physically.We may feel we are using logic at the time but ultimatly it is the emotions and physical responses that dominate.It makes us love people,create things , explore, work, make friends ,eat , drink ,sleep and many more things.
When you realise that something will effect you by use of logic this in turn will often send a message to you body that produces a physical effect , raised or lowered blood pressure , tenseness irritation, calm and peace or worry, these are what usually move us to react.
Ask yourself why do we Feel hungery, not just know we are hungery and need food.The feelings we have are used by the body to motivate us.Just like pain tells us we are injured or ill . Studies of people who don't feel pain due to defects have shown that they will accidentally cut or hurt themselves, be able to see what they have done but will not always do something about it immediately if at all but leave it for latter, while a person who feels pain will go running off straight away to do something about it.
Often if you body desires something it is very difficult to resit fullfilling that desire.Like when you have an itch , its hard to avoid scratching it.Studies have also been done on people who have had part of there brain destroyed an now lack emotional responses.They have gone from succsessful buisness men to hermit like reclusess as they now even though still posessing logical ability , lack the desire to do anything with it.The point I am making is not whether humans can be logical , but whether this alone can motivate people to change strongly held belief systems.Of course we use logic over emotion alot when it comes to little things but bigger issues are harder to fight.
As to the last sentence reason and reasoning are different things.
A reason in this sense is a purpose or motive to do something.
Reasoning is a way of thinging about things. -
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Will we ever find the magic bullet.
by sleepy inlets just face it humans are odd.. nearly all here are proof of it.. we were able at one time to believe so fully in an idea that we gave our lives to it , and now we dont.. although this subject has been discussed many times before it is something that frustrates me , big time.. well we all at one time thought we knew it all.
the meaning of life the real history of human kind why we die why there is suffering and many more of lifes mysteries were plain and simple to us.. gradually came the realisation that things were not as we had thought.. what was once so obvious was now so obviously wrong.. so how do humans manage to believe fervently on issues that to others make no sense?.
is there a magic explanation or piece of logic that can convince any witness with a functioning mind the error of their beliefs?.
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sleepy
Radar
"I would like to see a serious Documentary played on national television, with regard to the truth behind the Watchtower organisation. People like Ray Franz, could have influenced so many in this regard. This could be a magic bullet, with the emotional trigger."So would I.Trouble is JW are really such a small group of people would it interest any major TV company to screen it?
Perhaps some of us could write in to some tv companies about doing a film on witness, the otherside of the story from the EX's.I remember one on Channel 4 a few years back on witnesses.I think the trouble with logic is that it doesn't motivate you on it's own.
Humans run on emotional responses . For instance we usually eat when we FEEL hungery.Not when we work out that we need food (of course people have set dinner times but this is when they know they are going to feel hungery).We desire food when our body through chemical reactions gives us a physical message in our gut.Just try getting someone who doesn't feel hungery to eat. It is a very difficult task.If you think about it when we have to fight emotional responses with logic it is a very difficult task.
Emotions and feelings drive us to do things while logic helps us select the right things.People usually need a reason to abbadon strongly held beliefs , reasoning alone is not always enough.
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51
Sum everything up with just one sentence???
by Celtic inwhat you got to say, in a nutshell?.
peace.
celtic
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sleepy
What the crap...!
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15
Will we ever find the magic bullet.
by sleepy inlets just face it humans are odd.. nearly all here are proof of it.. we were able at one time to believe so fully in an idea that we gave our lives to it , and now we dont.. although this subject has been discussed many times before it is something that frustrates me , big time.. well we all at one time thought we knew it all.
the meaning of life the real history of human kind why we die why there is suffering and many more of lifes mysteries were plain and simple to us.. gradually came the realisation that things were not as we had thought.. what was once so obvious was now so obviously wrong.. so how do humans manage to believe fervently on issues that to others make no sense?.
is there a magic explanation or piece of logic that can convince any witness with a functioning mind the error of their beliefs?.
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sleepy
Lets just face it humans are odd.
Nearly all here are proof of it.
We were able at one time to believe so fully in an idea that we gave our lives to it , and now we don’t.
Although this subject has been discussed many times before It is something that frustrates me , big time.Well we all at one time thought we knew it all. The meaning of life the real history of human kind why we die why there is suffering and many more of life’s mysteries were plain and simple to us.
Gradually came the realisation that things were not as we had thought.
What was once so obvious was now so obviously wrong.
So how do humans manage to believe fervently on issues that to others make no sense?
Is there a “magic” explanation or piece of logic that can convince any witness with a functioning mind the error of their beliefs?
You can bring up 607, false prophecy, paedophiles, UN , validity of the Bible , evolution and science.
Yet no matter how good you are at reasoning on these subjects you will not convince all of the truth.
In fact you may not convince one.
Why?Well are people who have never been JW’s any better at reasoning , for seeing the world as it truly is?
I would say no .Each person has his own world view , his own beliefs.
Some may believe evolution caused life on earth , but only because they are taught it. They may have no better understanding of the matter than the average witness. But they see scientists as an authority.
Some believe in magic others in holy books. People have differing political views and moralistic standards. But all have a sort of belief system.
In order to be able to function as a human we must form a world view through which we interpret events.
Human need to be able to make sense of the world and to do so we must draw conclusions about how the world functions to enable us to label things ,categorise them and tuck them neatly into or life.
To jump from one world view to another usually requires the separating of more than one fact or opinion from its previous label or understanding.
A person will often need to see several of his beliefs are in error before he decides to re-align his world view, and have his paradigm shifted.
Unless a profound and major piece of evidence arises in which case the change will often be a shock to the system.
So is there the magic bullet that will enable us to shoot down the beliefs of the witnesses ?Will some one come up with such an outdstandingly reasonable aurgument against Jehovahs witnesses being right ,that all but the insane will have to recant?
Or do we have to keep on always chipping away with little bits of evidence until we break through?
How did it work for you?I just wish there was an easy way to convince people of the real truth, but then again maybe I'm wrong now...
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19
Britain Top Man In Europe
by Englishman inas 12 european countries, including the dominant german and french communities, prepare for the introduction of the euro, great britain stands pretty well alone in witholding the sacrifice of it's currency.. january 1, 2002, sees the complete ending of the mark, franc, escudo, peseta, drachma and other currencies as most of europe chooses to totally adopt the new monetary system, the euro.. britain has come in for a welter of criticism for holding back from joining the rest of europe until it deems that the time is right.. recent figures now show that britain has the highest gdp in europe, trailing only behind the usa and japan worldwide.
the foretold recession is also reckoned to miss britain, a growth of 2 - 3% holding up the economy.. a recent survey shows that the british now spend almost 21% of their income on leisure activities, whereas the rest of europe manage an average of about 12%.. is this a good time to be british?
maybe so, if recession hammers into the us and japan it could well be the best country in the world to live in once more.. englishman.. bring on the dancing girls!
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sleepy
I must say I have noticed we Brits seem to be getting richer.
I hope it all doesn't end in a fall like the end of the eighties.
House prices though are ridiculous , In any big southern city first time buyers are out priced and you can forget London.
If this doesn't change I carnt see the current economical situation lasting.