sleepy

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Posts by sleepy

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  58

  UK Posters: C'mon Gimme a Smiley :)

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello britains .

  i am trying to get as many uk posters to sign in.

  so post up please, whether you love the queen's corgis or think they should be nationalised!.

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  sleepy

  Hi i'm a Brit or Welsh to be more accurate.
  Any one else from Wales?
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  4

  order in chaos

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some people here seem pretty clued up on science, so can anyone explain:.

  does the fact that disorder increases with time (the entropy thermodynamic law), contradict the fact that there is order in chaos (the fact that an underlying order can be found in seemingly chaotic systems).. what goes up must come down

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  sleepy

  ballistic
  Although you suggest there is "order" in chaos there is less "order" than in a complex system such as a brain.
  It is probably more accurate to say there are patterns in chaos but these are less complex than patterns of a multipart interrelated system.
  Remember the second law of thermodynamics is not a law such as gravity or electromagnetism.
  With the law of gravity objects will be attracted to each other because there is a force making it happen.
  The second law of thermodynamics is a observation of what happens to objects when the real laws of nature effect them.
  So the forces that result in things decaying and being less "ordered" are the four real forces of gravity , electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces.
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  28

  Favourite Bands...............

  by JW72 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, i'm a musician so this poll is quite interesting to me(not that the others aren't.....).. 1. wishbone ash.

  2. genesis.

  3. extreme.

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  sleepy

  I dont really have fav bands anymore but heres some bands I've enjoyed lately
  Mogwai
  Radiohead
  Mercury Rev
  Yo la tengo
  Sigur ros
  Flaming lips
  Gorkys sygotic mynci
  Sparklehorse
  And the music from the films,
  The thin red line
  Gladiator
  Too many more to mention.
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  5

  Is this a rip off or what?!!!

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been meaning to write this for a while but haven't had time .anyway about a week ago i returned from my holidays which included a trip to fance were i have relatives .during this breack my wife and i decided it might be intresting to vist the international convention staged in paris .. my wife had previously booked accommodation through the society via her mothers congregation in france.. the cost for 3 nights in 2 star accommodation was 15 pounds ($20) each a night.

  which was less the the usuall price in this hotel.. i belive through making bulk booking the society gets discount.. imagine my supprise when i found out that poeple who had booked from britian through the society had paid over 600 pounds ($900) for 6 nights in 2 star accommodation not including flighs or meals.. where did all this money go ?.

  i dont know how much poeple paid from other countries but i estimate that there were a least 10,000 brothers from foriegn lands.. if the true cost of accommodation was closer to 100 pounds a head they made 500 pounds profit on each pearson thats 5,000,000 pounds.

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  sleepy

  I'd realy like to know more about were this money goes.
  can annyone help?Remmember booking through Britian would add no extra cost to the socety so why did british people pay more than 6 times as much as the French for the same accomadation?
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  25

  Big Bang Question

  by chappy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the origen,(fact, theory or speculation) of the infinitly small point of energy that started it all?.

  later,.

  chappy

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  sleepy

  Although its been mentioned in brief before I just wanted to make the point that the concept phyisicists hold of the BIGBANG is that it is not an explosion but an expansion.
  The two are very different.
  There is evidence that the matter and energy that make up our visible universe were in a low entropy state ie highly ordered state when it was small and densely packed and that the big bang is the decay of that state into a high entropy ,more disordered state . (I hope I got the entropys the right way round)That this happens to highly ordered stuctures is obserevered all the time when things decay they become less ordered due to other real laws of nature.
  So some phyisicsts feal that the universe is more often in an high entropy state and the low one it got into at the beginning of the present universe was due to random fluctuations in the quantum world (sub-atomic)resulting in the highly ordered structure of a singularity.
  I dont know if I belive the above it just represents the view i've seen in some physics books.
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  5

  Is this a rip off or what?!!!

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been meaning to write this for a while but haven't had time .anyway about a week ago i returned from my holidays which included a trip to fance were i have relatives .during this breack my wife and i decided it might be intresting to vist the international convention staged in paris .. my wife had previously booked accommodation through the society via her mothers congregation in france.. the cost for 3 nights in 2 star accommodation was 15 pounds ($20) each a night.

  which was less the the usuall price in this hotel.. i belive through making bulk booking the society gets discount.. imagine my supprise when i found out that poeple who had booked from britian through the society had paid over 600 pounds ($900) for 6 nights in 2 star accommodation not including flighs or meals.. where did all this money go ?.

  i dont know how much poeple paid from other countries but i estimate that there were a least 10,000 brothers from foriegn lands.. if the true cost of accommodation was closer to 100 pounds a head they made 500 pounds profit on each pearson thats 5,000,000 pounds.

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  sleepy

  I've been meaning to write this for a while but haven't had time .Anyway about a week ago I returned from my holidays which included a trip to Fance were I have relatives .During this breack my Wife and I decided It might be intresting to vist the international convention staged in Paris .
  My wife had previously booked accommodation through the society via her mothers congregation in France.
  The cost for 3 nights in 2 star accommodation was 15 pounds ($20) each a night. Which was less the the usuall price in this hotel.
  I belive through making bulk booking the society gets discount.
  Imagine my supprise when I found out that poeple who had booked from Britian through the society had paid over 600 pounds ($900) for 6 nights in 2 star accommodation not including flighs or meals.
  Where did all this money go ?
  I dont know how much poeple paid from other countries but I estimate that there were a least 10,000 brothers from foriegn lands.
  If the true cost of accommodation was closer to 100 pounds a head they made 500 pounds profit on each pearson thats 5,000,000 pounds
  ($7,500,000) just on the foreigners.
  Was the assembly a fund raising exercise to pay the tax they owe in France?
  Anyone know anymore about these sort of events?
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  7

  letter to the society

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is a rough version of a letter i intend to send to the society regarding an article in the july 1 2001 watchtower about doubt.. any suggestions on how i can improve the letter?.

  also what are the odds on getting in big trouble in sending this?.

  dear friend ,.

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  sleepy

  Here is a rough version of a letter I intend to send to the society regarding an article in the july 1 2001 watchtower about doubt.
  Any suggestions on how I can improve the letter?
  Also what are the odds on getting in big trouble in sending this?

  Dear Friend ,
  I recently had an opportunity to re-read an article in the july 1 2001 watchtower on page 18 entitled “Do let doubts destroy your faith”. I wondered if you could assist me in my thinking as I found it difficult to understand fully the viewpoints expressed there.
  First of all you compared insidious doubts to a viral or bacterial infection , these were doubts about our faith or relationship with Jehovah, you said we could be open to doubts if we starve ourselves spiritually. The word doubt basically means to be uncertain or undecided about something.
  Insidious means spreading developing, or acting inconspicuously but with harmful effect.
  How would you define a doubt that has a harmful effect? Is it one that may lead us to doubt the organisation of Jehovah’s witnesses?
  Next you say that “not all doubt is bad. At times you need to suspend acceptance of something till you are sure of the facts”
  At which point can we say we are sure of the facts when it comes to the matter of faith. Faith means reliance or trust, or a belief in a religious doctrine or system of beliefs.
  Which meaning of faith do you refer to when you talk of “ damaging your faith and your relationship with Jehovah” in the second paragraph . If you mean the first then the fact that we have to have faith about something and do not know something is true means we don’t have all the facts , over wise we would not need faith. So when we have faith in something by definiton there is room for doubt as we are trusting without knowing the full facts.

  You say “Religious exhortations to that you should just believe and doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive”
  So as Jehovah’s witnesses what are we able to doubt about our religion?

  “Sometimes a persons past record gives legitimate reason for doubt” Does this in your opinion apply to religious organisations also?
  How am I to view errors in reasoning the society has made in the past such as “this generation will by no means pass away until these things occur” ? Since the past view did not come from God and the society had it wrong is that a legitimate reason for doubt? As the apostle John said “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God” when is an expression considered to be inspired , when it’s said to come directly from God or from a group of people who claim to be led by him .If God doesn't inspire the governing body or literature writers when they wrote what was previously considered truth in which way does he use them?

  You next said “ Yes an honest, humble examination of the facts to establish the truth is often called for. This however is not the same as allowing unfounded doubts to develop in our mind and heart-doubts that can wreck our firmly established beliefs and relationships” How do we know when a doubt is unfounded? This will obviously require research and evidence will need to be considered. What is the organisations view of those who do such research?
  Anyway you quoted the example of Eve to show how Satan can plant doubts in our mind. But was it the doubt that was wrong or the fact that she didn’t try to check out the facts?
  Then you quote from James “Keep asking in faith, not doubting at all” because we become “Like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about.” You comment that a human can develop “an uncertainty of belief that leaves us floundering” you say that this can leave us open to demonic teaching and philosophies, so what evidence do you present to show that this is the case and that if we are not sure because the evidence does not seem complete that we must just except things in faith other wise we are open to demonic teaching?
  Does this not contradict what you said earlier , “Religious exhortations to that you should just believe and doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive” If we doubt you suggest this is from the demons you even say in the next paragraph “ How can we protect ourselves from damaging doubts? ( i.e those against aspects of the belief system of Jehovah’s witnesses) The answer is remarkably simple: by rejecting satanic propaganda...”.So how does this tie in with us being allowed to consider doubts we may have, on the one hand you say we can have doubts on the other that all doubts aganst the socety are from Satan.
  This is more clear when we consider what is said on page 20 “Are we really living in the last days? Can you believe everything the bible says? Is this truly Jehovah’s organisation? Satan would love to plant doubts like these in your mind .Do not let a negligent attitude toward spiritual feeding leave you easy pray to his deceptive teaching”

  So should I just believe these things and not doubt because these come from Satan?
  Well you say “Be a good student of “the holy writings” In the article you encourage us to fight doubt by continually studying articles from the society and the bible.
  So in being a student how do I study the holy writings to see if what is taught by the writing committees of Jehovah's’ witnesses is correct ? Can I only refer to their books and teaching or to others , or do other peoples teaching come from the demons? If I consider only the societies viewpoint how can I know whether it is biased or not or whether it employs good logic and reason and a truthful presentation of the facts. I can only confirm this if I study other sources. Why fear this , an honest individual would surely recognise the truth if it is so and be able to reject erroneous teaching. If we can’t do this are we not blindly excepting what we are taught? So am I allowed to spend time studying other sources of information ?

  Is not teaching that dangerous doubts come from Satan and that you should rid you self of them the same as saying we should doubt nothing the society teaches and that we should just believe what they tell us?

  Lastly you present the example of Abraham and say that some feel he had legitimate grounds for doubt. But you point out he had strong trust in what was promised and his hope was realised. Are you suggesting that even if we feel we have legitimate reasons for doubt we should ignore them and just trust like Abraham?
  What of a Catholic or a Buddhist ? should they just have trust as well if they feel their religion is lacking?

  Remember the statement “Religious exhortations to that you should just believe and doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive” In this letter I am questioning the logic that presented in this article which seems to be thus ,
  You can have doubts but doubts against the truth are dangerous and come from Satan so even if something seems doubtful have trust like Abraham and get rid of the doubt by studying more of the arguments that are for the society as the rest come from Satan. So therefore don’t doubt and believe everything we tell you.

  Since I am allowed to doubt and you don’t just expect me to believe please can you explain your position on doubt more clearly.

  I will appreciate you consideration of this letter and look forward to your reply.
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  8

  how do i show my letter?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've writen a letter to the society on microsoft home publishing and i want to show it here but can't work out how to do it .. does anyone know?

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  sleepy

  I know how to cut and paste but I don't know how to get it from microsoft to the discussion forum and into my message.
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  8

  how do i show my letter?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've writen a letter to the society on microsoft home publishing and i want to show it here but can't work out how to do it .. does anyone know?

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  sleepy

  I've writen a letter to the society on microsoft home publishing and I want to show it here but can't work out how to do it .
  does anyone know?
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  22

  Should you write to the society?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when someone comes across something in the "truth" that disterbs them should they write to the society or is this pointless?.

  i think they should write for several reasons.. 1.you must give them at least a chance to present their side of the story.it is no good just relying for others for your information you can not be shure what the society really belive until you hear it from them yourself.. wasn't just relying on the judgement of others part of what got you in in the first place.. its good for us to try and advance in our way of thinking during life and part of this involves doing our own research which is not complete until we go to the source of our conflict.. also if you bring up the point with someone it gives more weight to your argument if mention you wrote to the society and this was their answer.. 2. the more poeple that write in with the same points the more difficult it will be for them to hold to an erroneous stand.. the more different people that write the more ways of expresing the point will be heared different ways will make sence to different people.. remember its not just the same person answering all letters but different people who will have to do research an answer your point, which could make them think.. (this assumes that the society is genuinely mistaken and not corupt, although it could be a bit of both).

  of cource if you do not want hassle off your elders dont tell the society you are a brother/sister or just give a different name ,prehaps you could give the address of your place of work or somewhere else if you don't want to be traced easily.. in my case i just made it sound like i was an intrested person.. or you could make out that you need some help in presenting the societies case to an intrested person who has quetions.

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  sleepy

  stealth,

  Unfortunatly I'm unable to find the letter the society sent me but I can tell you the jist of it.
  They did adress my concern's directly and tried to answer my questions using quotes from the insight book .
  I found they did show concern for me and not contempt or arrogance.
  Trouble is their answer just was not logical.
  As to whether it was just a standard letter I don't know as I haven't seen any others of a similiar nature.
  I wasn't a waste of time though as I didn't expect them to agree with me but I just wanted to give them a chance.Also It helped me to formulise my thoughts more clearly.
  Looking back though I dont think I expessed myself as well as I could of and will prehaps write again on the same subject.
  I must mention that I live in Britian and wrote to the London bethel so I don't know how Brooklyn responds, but I think they must have known I was a brother by some of the things I said and were purposely trying not to be harsh or dogmatic in their reply.
  Even if they didn't know I was a brother I'm sure they would have let the elders know that a person in their area had written to them and would have asked them to call on them.I know this happens becaused I've been asked to do so myself.
  I could be wrong but I think the writer of the reply knew what would happen if he informed the elders and decided not to do so, something about the tone of the letter sujested that.
  perhaps I'm wrong.
  I will try and find the letter and get back to ou latter