Posts by sleepy

15

Watchtower style architecture

by sleepy in

jw
friends

so was it just me or are the architectual designs of kingdom halls absolutely bland and uninspiring?.

i suppose it just like the pictures in the mags middle of the road and all that.. if there was a new system and the watchtower society had control on thing i wonder if they would insist on standardised designs .. 3 or 4 designs for each country to chose from.. if you think that is far fetched that is exactly the policy they have today for kingdom hall design.

there are several predesigned stadardised halls to chose from.

sleepy

So was it just me or are the architectual designs of Kingdom halls absolutely bland and uninspiring?
I suppose it just like the pictures in the mags middle of the road and all that.

If there was a new system and the watchtower society had control on thing I wonder if they would insist on standardised designs .
3 or 4 designs for each country to chose from.
If you think that is far fetched that is exactly the policy they have today for Kingdom hall design. There are several predesigned stadardised halls to chose from.

8

Jehovahs witnesses, in the divine purpose?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

notice my watchtower style title?.

i've just been rereading the book " jehovahs witnesses in the divine purpose " from 1959.. its an ealier book recounting the history of the organisation.. i don't belive many jw's will have seen or read it, besides they have a new "history" book to read .. being more familiar with the history of the witnesses has made me realise how biased and misleading this book truely is.. here are some quotes from chapter 14 "reorganizing for active service service".. those who know about jw history will notice the slants and misleading statments straight away , but i'll try to explian some of them for anyone new.. in preparing the reader for explaining the changes rutherford made to the religion after russell's death it tells us;.

"when the society began to be freed for further preaching work following ww1 they realized they had been held in spiritual bondage too in many ways.

sleepy

Here are some more quotes from the Divine purpose book .
I'd like to see what you make of them.
Still in the chapter"Reorganising for active service";
"Little did gods people in 1919 know the significant part the instrument The Golden Age , was to play in exposing the unholy combine of Nazi-Fascist-Catholic building. In the years that were to follow, numerous and powerful were the death dealing blows that were to be dealt to this combine by articles and cartoons appearing in this courageous journal."

Have I missed something from my history books?
According to the watchtower their articles were "Death dealing"
So they caused death to the Nazi-Fascist-Catholic combine.
Funny I thought it was the American-British-Russian alliance who brought it down.
I must be mistaken.

29

How does anyone know matter didn't always exist?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

a few days ago i was told matter didn't always exist.. i was told this by several persons who spoke with much certainty.. they said matter came from a singularity.. this as you know raises more questions than it answers.. have they any proof that singularities even exist?.

how come people state things as a fact, that they have no solid proof for, and expect others to just beleive them.. and if you don't accept their beleif, you are said, not to be intelligent.. isn't that a case of attacking the straw man?.

instead of the argument?.

sleepy

Does it really matter?

Oh sorry about that attempt at humour.

66

Is it all Rutherfords fault?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

it has been said that the gb are just followers of followers.. they had belived a lie all their lives and have taught others the same.. in another post i've disscussed how i'd like to know more about russell and rutherford.. were they followers of followers or corupt.. many seem to point to rutherford as the bad guy.. even in the societies own books he seems to come off as a dodgy guy.. was russell guenuine in his belief , or was he courupt too?.

so who is mostly to blame for the jw religon russell or rutherford?.

or is it ourselves ,did we just decive ourselves and seek to pass the blame when the truth dawned?.

sleepy

RR
I wouldn't get too excited by ideas about the pyramids of Giza.
I notce that article you quote makes no mention of the arguments of geologists and archeologists against the great pyramid of Giza being something special.
At the moment there is a British writer by the name of Graham Hancock who makes great claims about the origens of the sphinx and the 3 pyramids of Giza as well as other ancient monuments around the world.
Although his claims may not have been the same as Russell and others the idea of the pyramids being something other than what many belive
roused the attention of many scientists who have writen books in refutation of his claims.
I'm not saying there is nothing mysterious about the pyramids or that current scientific belief about them is definate.
I just suggest that the Bible students look at both sides of the issue before they get too carried away.

66

Is it all Rutherfords fault?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

it has been said that the gb are just followers of followers.. they had belived a lie all their lives and have taught others the same.. in another post i've disscussed how i'd like to know more about russell and rutherford.. were they followers of followers or corupt.. many seem to point to rutherford as the bad guy.. even in the societies own books he seems to come off as a dodgy guy.. was russell guenuine in his belief , or was he courupt too?.

so who is mostly to blame for the jw religon russell or rutherford?.

or is it ourselves ,did we just decive ourselves and seek to pass the blame when the truth dawned?.

sleepy

Teejay
in response to your question the reason I sometimes pose questions on this board is to dissucuss points.Even though I may have an opinion on a point I'd like to hear other opinions and consider them also.
I personaly feel Rutherford ideas were more destructive to peoples lives than Russells.

21

Question about Accuracy & Persuasion

by troubled in

jw
friends

in my social psychology class, we are studying a chapter on persuasion.

here is an interesting excerpt from our study book, "social psychology: unraveling the mystery" by douglas kenrick, steven neuberg, and robert cialdini, page 171. please tell me if you think it applies to jws, ex-jws, and this board in general.. .

p. 170, "done deals".

sleepy

I also think it is a matter of learning reasoning skills.
Its not impossible and some of the evidence that we can do so is the amount of technology we have today that came about by logical investigation.
In can be hard though to recognise when we are being biased and it doesn't help that we can only view the universe through our minds which we dont have full control over.

I think it is a mistake to come to a conclution on something and to there after view the wolrd in respect to our assumed viewpoint .We must always question what we think and try to be dispassionate about our reasoning.

An example of how many try to use logic over emotion is of parents.
It is possible for a loving parent to punish their child even though they hate to do so ,( you dont usually get as great an emotional response when thinking of future beifits as compared to imediate benifits) if it is for the eventual good of the child .
This shows how humans can fight an emotional responce and replace it with a logical one.

I feel that there is a reality idependent of how we view the world which stands true whether we know it or are unawre of what the reality is.
So JW's are right or they are wrong.
The reality stands independant of how any ex-JW's or JW feel about it.
Logic and correct knowlegde I hope would lead us to the right conclustion if we can make it stand clear of our emotions.( of course our emotions aren't always wrong they just tend to be selfish and a trifle misleading at times)
With the idea of ex-jw viewing negatives , JW's possitive I feel its the EX's who have more to lose in giving up the JW life than sticking with it.
You lose the hope of everlasting life ,friends and family. So for most to make that decision is a fight against emotion.
Of course you hope to gain also freedom etc but I feel most would trade this with livingforever happily with friends and family.
So even though you give up family and friends to become a JW it is with a much greater hope in view.
Where as people like me feel that eventually the future holds death as its end .
I know which one i prefer ,and I know which conclustion seems according to my current knowledge (always subject to alteration should the need arise)correct.

27

The Bristol assembly hall scandel

by sleepy in

jw
friends

is there anyone from the area who remmbers the story of the 30,000 spent on trees for the vist of a gb memmber.. i dont know the exact story as it is now about 7 or 8 years ago but i heard it from several people that worked on the hall.. apparently a gb memmber was to come to britian to dedicate the hall (i cant remmember which one).. the brothers in charge wanted the hall to look nice for his vist.but the land around was yet to be landscaped.. so brothers enquired as to the viability of planting some trees but were informed that it was the wrong time of year and they would die.. the cost of the trees was around the region of 30,000.plus the amount of free labour from the brothers in planting them.. anyway the big bosses of the scheme decided to ignore the professional advice and planted them anyway.. they all died.. 30.000 pounds of money from old ladies, pioneers and little children as well as ordinary publishers went down the drain for the gb's visit.. nice to know they used our money wisely.

sleepy

individuals wife
Oh yes that indoor fountain.
Another waste of money as they aren't allowed to use it anymore.

27

The Bristol assembly hall scandel

by sleepy in

jw
friends

is there anyone from the area who remmbers the story of the 30,000 spent on trees for the vist of a gb memmber.. i dont know the exact story as it is now about 7 or 8 years ago but i heard it from several people that worked on the hall.. apparently a gb memmber was to come to britian to dedicate the hall (i cant remmember which one).. the brothers in charge wanted the hall to look nice for his vist.but the land around was yet to be landscaped.. so brothers enquired as to the viability of planting some trees but were informed that it was the wrong time of year and they would die.. the cost of the trees was around the region of 30,000.plus the amount of free labour from the brothers in planting them.. anyway the big bosses of the scheme decided to ignore the professional advice and planted them anyway.. they all died.. 30.000 pounds of money from old ladies, pioneers and little children as well as ordinary publishers went down the drain for the gb's visit.. nice to know they used our money wisely.

sleepy

Another thing about those assembly halls was how far they expected people to travel to use them.
The one in Bristol was intended to be used by people from the far west of wales down to cornwall across to southhampton and I'm not sure how far noth as there was a hall in Birmingham.
It ment that people who had to just travel up to say 20 minuets to half an hour now were expected to make a trip of up to 3 hours to get there.
Imagine the stress for people who worked full time and had kids. You now had to also get up at at 5 or 6 in the morning after working all week get your food and kids ready then drive for up to 3 hours and sit through 6 or 7 hours of talks then travel all the way home get there at 7 or 8 o'clock make your tea do the washing up oh yeh and discuss the days encouragement ie: do more on min , study more go to more mettings .Then go to bed knackered and do the same the next day.
I bet everyone felt thery refreshed by monday morning.
Coming from wales you had to pay all that extra petrol money plus the toll for the brigde and also contribute to the debt of the Hall.
Some in the far of places protested and now I belive they only go on the special day event not the circuit weekend.
What was the point of all this expence and the extra effort the brothers had to make to travel.
I bet the decisions to build were made by people far detached from the normal poeple who were to use the hall.
How does it bring Glory to Jehovah to put all this extra burden on people who were happy to meet localy for assemblies?

27

The Bristol assembly hall scandel

by sleepy in

jw
friends

is there anyone from the area who remmbers the story of the 30,000 spent on trees for the vist of a gb memmber.. i dont know the exact story as it is now about 7 or 8 years ago but i heard it from several people that worked on the hall.. apparently a gb memmber was to come to britian to dedicate the hall (i cant remmember which one).. the brothers in charge wanted the hall to look nice for his vist.but the land around was yet to be landscaped.. so brothers enquired as to the viability of planting some trees but were informed that it was the wrong time of year and they would die.. the cost of the trees was around the region of 30,000.plus the amount of free labour from the brothers in planting them.. anyway the big bosses of the scheme decided to ignore the professional advice and planted them anyway.. they all died.. 30.000 pounds of money from old ladies, pioneers and little children as well as ordinary publishers went down the drain for the gb's visit.. nice to know they used our money wisely.

sleepy

This aint no urban legend as far as I know.
Lots of people I know worked on the hall and told me about it.They weren't happy about it themselves.
As to the trees being for planning permission that is true but they were told by experts to plant the next year and the only reason they went ahead too earlly was for the GBs visit.

16

Ita Buttrose quoted in 15th Sept WT

by why144000 in

jw
friends

i realise that the name ita buttrose may not ring any bells with most of the people frequenting this board.

last sunday wt study used a quote in the first paragraph from the australian womens weekly a monthly (?

) magazine here in australia.

sleepy

Amazing or Alan F
Is this book you speak of available anyware?
I would be interested in seeing it.