sleepy

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Posts by sleepy

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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  "What else do you want from the man?"

  A classic case of people reading the title and not the content.To ask a question is not the same as promoting the idea.Fors and againsts were presented in my original post.

  I do not want an apology from Ray Franz.The point was about accountability.Those higher up in the organisation having more accountability for the actions of the society.The higher up you were the more people you effected.

  I noice that many are willing to vilify todays members without taking into account that one day may leave like Franz.If you were writing in the 70's he would have been tarred with the same brush as the rest.

  Of course he has done a lot of work in helping people out as he most have felt a level of responsability toward them which many are greatful for.

  It would be good to show the same attitude to todays members, we can not read their minds and they may even be trying to change things within the organisation or planning on leaving we just don't know.It took dis-fellowshipping for Franz to leave fully and it may take the same for others.
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  9

  Are any subjects taboo?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you feel there are some subjects and questions that shouldn't be asked?.

  maybe you feel its disrespectful, or in bad taste to discuss some issues.or are all things open to discussion and consideration?.

  are you afraid of asking questions or discussing certain issues as you are afraid of how others will see you, and may think that because you ask the question you are promoting the issue?

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  sleepy

  Do you feel there are some subjects and questions that shouldn't be asked?

  Maybe you feel its disrespectful, or in bad taste to discuss some issues.Or are all things open to discussion and consideration?

  Are you afraid of asking questions or discussing certain issues as you are afraid of how others will see you, and may think that because you ask the question you are promoting the issue?
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  64

  WHICH MEETING WAS THE MOST BORING?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more meetings you go to the more drivel you hear.

  elder's meetings were terrible because all you ever did was gossip about how everyone wasn't doing this or that.

  meetings for field service sucked.....enough said on that.

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  sleepy

  ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ,oh sorry

  The watchtower was so boring I still feel sleepyZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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  9

  Watchtower Disrupts Space Time Continuum

  by professor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower disrupts space time continuum .

  as discovered by messenger on this thread, .

  the watchtower has disassociated itself from the watchtower!.

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  sleepy

  This presents a problem for those who want to leave as in some dimentions the watchtower does not exist to leave from.

  Therefore you need enter a dimention in which the watchtower rules supreme, via a wormhole in space.Only then can you truly exit the org by means of a black hole, in which all your bodily parts will be altered to that of a governing body member in yet another dimention, it is only there that you can apostasize by joining the UN, upon which point that dimetion will cease to exist and you will pop back where you belong.
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  Just2laws

  Thanks for your insightful reply.Franz remains an enigma to must of us, as we have never met him or do not know him.

  If he spends this much time on his work then its obvious he does feel a responsability for what has happened.

  The question was raised as a precedent, do those in high postions bare more responsability than others?And are they prepered to put more effort into helping others.

  I havent yet done enought, and I hope that I will .When I compare the time put into meetings , service etc to what I do now to help people out its nowhere near.
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  I see some people have very strong feelings about the whole Franz issue and maybe feel I shoudn't even ask such questions.

  Well I'm sorry but not being able to ask questions is part of The JW mind set.

  Remmeber Ray was pushed he didn't jump.It was only after he critised the society mainly on the issue of whether all witnesses go to heaven!Remmember the paedophile issue, blood and the rest was all there in the 70's as well.

  But I have no grudges against him.His case just shows to a greater degree what was wrong with most witnesses.We were so concerened with our own salvation that we gave our lives and promoted false beliefs that hurt others.

  What lead me to the ray franz issue is this, as witness some were more zealous than others.Some were iregular publisher while others were eager to preach , preach , preach.

  They went as far as regular pioneering , serving as elders, circuit overseers, in bethal, on the branch, in the governing body.They showed more zeal as witnesses than most others, were privy to more information and had more responsability.The effect they could have on the lives on individual witnesses was far, far higher than many of us.

  So why did they do this, for love of their brothes?I don't know.But lets look at this , some were willing to serve full time in the service or as elders or even higher postions using up all their energies, yet are they willing to do the same now, they have left, to right their wrongs?

  Well actually I dont think it possible to right their wrongs.But the point stands , why so zealous then and not now?This includes me.I have nothing against Ray , I have never met him and am sure he is a nice guy.But he accepted that responsabilty to rule over others, and must take any flak he recieves for that as I would have to if I had been in the same position.

  Edited by - sleepy on 1 August 2002 15:22:6

  Edited by - sleepy on 1 August 2002 16:52:10
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  Cassline you've gone of the handle a bit there.I was asking a question not making accusations .There is a difference.

  Also I feel you've totally missed the point.

  Read this again,

  "Have you forgiven him?

  If we do hold him partly responable, how do you feel about your part in preaching the message of jehovahs witnesses, are you responsable for other peoples deaths and messed up lives,by say, taking a stand on blood and giving talks praising pioneering ;and encouraging others to do the same?"

  The point being if we blame others what about us?

  Can someone please explain why it is wrong to ask this question.

  Edited by - sleepy on 1 August 2002 12:4:56
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  Thi chi

  Sorry for the part I played.

  Actually I've never met you so I don't know if I effected your life in any way as a witness.But if any talk I gave or any advise I gave did harm anyones life I am very sorry and would apologise for that rather than blame everyone else.By the way I have apologised to people I effected when given the oppurtunity.

  Notice my post is a question, it has a big ? after it.

  I'm not spanking.
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  Francois

  "I frankly find the question impertinent."

  Why , he is just a human like the rest of us, but his actions effected many times more people.Why is to ask this question disrespectful?
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  sleepy

  "Wouldn't this same accountability fall on you too, for whatever part you played in spreading the word of lies?"

  Yes of course.