SixofNine Ahhhhhhhhh....I just fell off the fence and into some brambles.
Posts by sleepy
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56Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy in.
what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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56
Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy in.
what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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sleepy
Gedanken"While I agree that gravity and evolution are two different things, I was focussing on what a "theory" is. Your post actually was talking about the theory of evolution - that is, the explanation of how evolution happened. That's a matter of debate. The theory of gravity, similarly, is an explanation of the fact of gravity. Evolution is a fact. How it happened is much less well understood. Just because we don;t understand how something happens (e.g., gravity) doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (e.g., gravity.)"
The point i'm focusing on is what evolution (in the sense of random mutations selected by hospitable environments) can cause and under what circumstances.For instance gravity can cause two objects to be attracted to each other, but that doesnt prove that a certain two object were attracted to each other soley under the pull of gravity or indead by gravity at all.
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56
Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy in.
what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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sleepy
Gedanken" The point being that the fact of evolution is almost as obvious as is the fact of gravity..."
The fact that things can evolve, is not the same as the idea that everything we see is the result of the same kind of evolution.Likewise those wishing to prove we are created do not need to prove that things can be created , but that all living things were.
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56
Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy in.
what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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sleepy
By the way I hold no religious conviction, and have no desire to see evolution or the idea of a God being quashed.My feeling are based on the evidence I have considered so far.
Gedanken I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic.I have no problem with scientists changing their view , this simply is not an issue for me.Gravity and evolution are two different subjects and I take each on their own merits.
Fe2O3Girl " I would not write off evolutionary theory on the basis of what the Watchtower presented in the "Creation" book." I don't.I once prepeared a letter to send to the society clomplaining of the errors in the "creator book".
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56
Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy in.
what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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sleepy
What am I going to do , I'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.
They are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.Although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.Complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .Also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.Evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.Evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does Creation.The fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.God is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.
Yet I exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.
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46
Trashing The USA.
by Englishman init seems to me that many americans are convinced that europeans are for ever slagging off the usa for some reason or another.. just to set the record straight, america bashing is relatively rare in europe, most of us regard the usa with a not inconsiderable degree of affection.
obviously there are cultural differences between the continents that can lead to feelings being trampled on, but america-hating persons are quite rare over here.
the few real antagonists are very vociferous, but like most fundamentalists, regaded as being completely loony.. maybe the americans who have visited over here have an opinion?.
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sleepy
I not sure that people trash the USA or its just that alot of whats comes out of it is trash.
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Has religion outlived its usefulness?
by sleepy inhas religion outlived its usefulness?.
i am baseing this on the idea that there is no god and that religious views came about as part of mankinds development in understanding the world.. i would say that the reason many religions have survived so long is because , to one degree or another they were useful to live by.they helped people develope moral standards and principles , even if they werent always correct or followed by all.also they helped organise seperated societies and encouraged comunictation between them.in fact some religions could have sped up the development of this world, is it a coinsidence that the developed world followed the christian religious view?.
but even thousands of years ago religion was hindering society when too rigidly applied, human development and advancement almost stopped in the muslim world when that took off.at one time what are now muslim contries wre highly advanced in mathermatics and science.could it be that just like the stagnation of the muslim world that the christian religion is just a hinderance to the mordern world preventing its futher development?.
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sleepy
Has religion outlived its usefulness?
I am baseing this on the idea that there is no god and that religious views came about as part of mankinds development in understanding the world.
I would say that the reason many religions have survived so long is because , to one degree or another they were useful to live by.They helped people develope moral standards and principles , even if they werent always correct or followed by all.Also they helped organise seperated societies and encouraged comunictation between them.In fact some religions could have sped up the development of this world, is it a coinsidence that the developed world followed the christian religious view?
But even thousands of years ago religion was hindering society when too rigidly applied, human development and advancement almost stopped in the muslim world when that took off.at one time what are now muslim contries wre highly advanced in mathermatics and science.Could it be that just like the stagnation of the muslim world that the christian religion is just a hinderance to the mordern world preventing its futher development?
Religion viewpoints now are preventing advancements at the cutting edge of science in research into genatics and such.The moral guidliness of the church are now falling behind that of the educated world instead of being infront.
Is religion just holding us back now, and does it serve no more purpose?
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114
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
by JanH inscientific american runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments.
short and to the point.. this is the first page.
click for the following ones.. see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleid=000d4fec-7d5b-1d07-8e49809ec588eedf&catid=2.
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sleepy
"The arguments rebutted here are pure nonsense"
I don't think all of them are.They may not be correct but doen't make them nonsense just not true.
Evolutionary science as it stands requires a mechanism and enviroment in which to work, if they are not there it dosen't work, and we are back asking questions.We can not know fully that it works for every thing on earth as we don't fully understand everything.Maybe it does.
But if it turns out that it doesn't work that doesn't mean there is a creator just that our understanding of the universe is not quite right.This has happened many times before with the understanding of gravity for example.Just because newton wasn't fully correct didn't mean god made things fall it just ment the understanding of gravity needed adjusting.
Consciousness it not yet understood and is what we are, untill that is sorted we don't have nearly a complete picture.
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Are only humans conscious and are all of them?
by sleepy inmany people have wondered whether animals have any consciousness.when your dog wags his tail is he really feeling happy or is he just like robot with no feelings at all?
it appears though that animals , all of them, lack the parts of the brain that have been found to be related to consciousness in humans.for instanse our eyes are conected mainly to two parts of the brain one of which when damaged causes you to lose your vision but the other part(sorry i cant remember the names) if in tact leaves you with blind sight.that is you cant see anything but if asked to point to moving objects you can still follow with your hand.
the dog only has the blind sight part.its more complecated than this but in general animals don't have the relevant parts for consciousness.but do in fact all humans, or are we conscious to the same degree?
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sleepy
Many people have wondered whether animals have any consciousness.When your dog wags his tail is he really feeling happy or is he just like robot with no feelings at all?
It appears though that animals , all of them, lack the parts of the brain that have been found to be related to consciousness in humans.For instanse our eyes are conected mainly to two parts of the brain one of which when damaged causes you to lose your vision but the other part(sorry I cant remember the names) if in tact leaves you with blind sight.That is you cant see anything but if asked to point to moving objects you can still follow with your hand.
The dog only has the blind sight part.Its more complecated than this but in general animals don't have the relevant parts for consciousness.But do in fact all humans, or are we conscious to the same degree?
For example some people can not recognise pitch, they are tone deaf.Some are colour blind.But are there other more complex abnormalities that have gone unrecognised?Are some people more robotic than others?Maybe mass murderers and others have a lack the guilt feelings that we have that stop us from doing harmful things to others?Or some people are held in more rigid control by their bodies desires?
Edited by - sleepy on 4 August 2002 11:13:37
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15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
by JanH inscientific american runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments.
short and to the point.. this is the first page.
click for the following ones.. see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleid=000d4fec-7d5b-1d07-8e49809ec588eedf&catid=2.
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sleepy
"15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense" I wish it would have been called "15 answers to creationist errors" instead as surly the title is too provocative.I feel its quite natural for people to assume there is a creator (that doen't mean there is one though) as we are used to seeing on a human level, complexity come from design. Also the idea that creationists are dishonest often comes accross, maybe some are, I just think they're often just over enthusiastic.