sleepy

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Posts by sleepy

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  3

  Are Jehovah?s witnesses and football fans the same?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are jehovah?s witnesses and football fans the same?

  this does have something to do with jw?s just bear with me.

  something that has always perplexed me are football fans and their loyalty to a particular club.

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  sleepy

  Are Jehovah?s witnesses and football fans the same?
  This does have something to do with JW?s just bear with me.
  Something that has always perplexed me are football fans and their loyalty to a particular club.
  Back in the olden days a football club was made up of local players, so local people would support their team, out of pride for their local team.
  Nowadays-big clubs get players from anywhere. Take Manchester untied one of the biggest clubs in Britain; players come from all over the world. Players are bought and sold regularly.
  So what exactly are the fans supporting?
  What exactly is Manchester untied? The players? Well they can come from anywhere, you could for arguments sake sack all the players and get new ones and they would still be Manchester untied.
  The same goes for managers, they come and go.
  Is it the stadium? Well no, you could knock down the stadium and build a new one, maybe even in a slightly different place and it would still be Manchester untied.
  Is it the supporters?
  Well maybe this is closer to the truth. Maybe Manchester united is really just a concept in a supporters mind.
  Whichever players or managers they have doesn?t matter that much. It is the concept that whoever plays under the banner Manchester united is in their minds the best team.
  
  Now think of Jehovahs witness and their loyalty to that religion.
  They believe they have the true religion, they in effect support that religion.
  Exchange football players for beliefs. Over the years various beliefs have come and gone, yet some how it is still the true religion.
  Leaders have changed just like managers of a football club, the leaders believe and teach different things than the founders of the religion just as managers have different tactics.
  What hasn?t changed is the witnesses belief that they have the best religion.
  The idea of the best or true religion just exists as a concept in their minds ,
  It is the true religion not because of what they believe but because it?s the one they follow.
  Beliefs can come and go to some degree yet they still feel it is the true religion.
  Okay some will leave when they really can?t stomach another belief change and see through the bull, just like some football fans will get annoyed and abandon their chosen club in response at their managers or players bad decisions.
  
  So maybe football fans and Jehovah?s witness are doing the basic same thing. Maybe the same areas of the brain that encourage loyalty to football clubs in some people effects others in different ways and encourages them to show loyalty to a religious concept, and other to something else.
  What do you think?
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  7

  thought experiment

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just read this at http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/minddict/siliconchip.html what do you think?

  this is one thing i have changed my mind on since being a jw.

  silicon chip replacement thought experiment - a thought experiment proposed to support the notion of causal functionalism in pylyshyn (1980).

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  sleepy

  Not sure this would make it conscious, though maybe I am a robot.
  exterminate exterminate...
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  7

  thought experiment

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just read this at http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/minddict/siliconchip.html what do you think?

  this is one thing i have changed my mind on since being a jw.

  silicon chip replacement thought experiment - a thought experiment proposed to support the notion of causal functionalism in pylyshyn (1980).

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  sleepy

  There is a large assumption there that nerons indeed can be replaced by a silicon chip and that all a neron is, is an input output machine.
  The computer analogies never actually explain how we experience things such as sight and sound just how the information can be processed.
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  15

  logic vs emotion

  by meggidon555 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i done with atheist for a time i'll get back to that with another thread later .

  this is for thiest or maybe the imaginative athiest .

  what caused god to create the universe logic or emotion.

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  sleepy

  I believe emotions are only tools to make us do things.
  We feel hungery to make us eat.
  we feel love for families to help our children survive.
  We feel sexual urges to procreate.
  We feel fear to run from danger.
  If there was a god and emotions made him make us , he has no free will but only urges like humans.
  If there was a logical reason to make us then God needs us , in order to fufil that logic.
  Each way God is just a robot.
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  27

  Whats the Biggest JW contradiction?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think the biggest contradiction was in jw teaching or logic?

  i remember people confronted us with the argument that maybe over thousands of years the bible has changed, we would probably say any changes were minor, and we have the dead sea scrolls etc that don't vary much from the bible today.

  yet when asked by people with a little knowledge about the bible why the name jehovah was not in any manuscripts of the new testament, we would effectivly says its because they have been changed over time.

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  sleepy

  What do you think the biggest contradiction was in JW teaching or logic?
  I remember people confronted us with the argument that maybe over thousands of years the Bible has changed, we would probably say any changes were minor, and we have The Dead Sea Scrolls etc that don't vary much from the Bible today.
  Yet when asked by people with a little knowledge about the Bible why the name Jehovah was not in any manuscripts of the new testament, we would effectivly says its because they have been changed over time.
  Duh, and double duh.
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  9

  To Norm, My old Friend

  by Farkel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey norm, .

  would you mind reposting your magnficent essay on the wts lies about the dubs who actually died in the holocaust?

  new ones here need to see it, but i know a researcher who also needs to see it, and run with it.

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  sleepy

  I remember watching a TV programme as a child about people who were persecuted by the Nazis.
  At the very end the presenter said something like "so you see it was not just jehovahs witness".
  Can't remember much else about the programe, maybe it was dealing with the subject.
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  45

  Do You Feel That Stereotyping Nationalities Is Necessarily Wrong?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  politically correct, it isn't----but do you think there's any validity to "stereotyping" people or backgrounds??

  ?

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  sleepy

  Stereotyping individuals based on their background is usually a bad move.But sometimes there are traights found in large groups of people of a certain background that are common to a large number of them.
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  13

  OPINION: How do we think about it?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  somebody once said: "opinions are like a**holes; everybody has one".

  there is a difference between knowledge and opinion; a great distinction.. knowledge carries certainty that everybody everywhere gets the same result.

  two plus two in nova scotia is the same as two plus two in des moines, iowa.

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  sleepy

  How many people believe something has no bearing on whether something is true or not.
  Something exists as a fact whether anyone believes it or not, the earth was always round, even when people didn't know it.
  Though blondes are dumb.
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  29

  should crisis of conscience be on the net?

  by sleepy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  got to be honest an say i'm supprissed cofc is not on the net in some offical form.

  any good reason why its not there?

  lets think, if i was a executive in a pharmaceutical company that gave out drug that were harmful, i then realised the drugs were bad, but the rest of the exectives didn't want to know and chucked you out,you lost your money and pension but you had the infomation to help people who had taken the bad drugs , would you, .

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  sleepy

  "Since he isn't a gov body member he influences no one through the pages of the WT. And since JWs are not encouraged to read older material then whatever influence he used to have is pretty much nil"
  
  That is soooo wrong.My parents were baptized at the time Ray was writing for the society.I was brough up a witness, my brothers and sisters were brought up witnesses, so are their children.I'm sorry but the effects of things people read in the past effect families today.
  
  I think I don't see the book as work as such but information vital to help people.
  There is a difference.
  I think maybe Brummie had the most sensible reply.Franz doesn't mind if people stay witnesses he has no aim to get them out, as like the rest of us he has nothing better to offer.Fair enough.
  I just think we(including me) should take responsability for our actions , the more influence the greater the responsability.
  The issue was never that I wanted a book for free.
  It was about easy access to information.
  It is NOT THE COST but the EASY ACCESS i'm writing about.Since it was not on the net I assumed the books purpose was then to make some money.
  Back in the eighties there was no internet, so of cource a book was the best option the way most people could access the information.
  Nowadays things are different.
  I assumed he wrote the book to help people maybe I assumed wrong , it was to make a living.Or a bit of both.
  
  Liz"It's not a question of respect. Obviously, you have none, and probably deserve none. I have no respect whatsoever for someone who thinks that an author isn't entitled to renumeration for his work. I wonder if you work for free?"
  I never said that you missed the point.
  
  Dont turn things into personnal attacks I was discussing a principle.I respect and like Franz as the person I read in CoC.
  I just see things a different way to some.
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  29

  should crisis of conscience be on the net?

  by sleepy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  got to be honest an say i'm supprissed cofc is not on the net in some offical form.

  any good reason why its not there?

  lets think, if i was a executive in a pharmaceutical company that gave out drug that were harmful, i then realised the drugs were bad, but the rest of the exectives didn't want to know and chucked you out,you lost your money and pension but you had the infomation to help people who had taken the bad drugs , would you, .

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  sleepy

  Larc you are so missing the point.Ray franz is no different to anyone else.He deserves no more respect than the next guy, no less.
  Buy his positon in the organistaion though ,he has access to much greater information than the average witness.
  What he has is information and responsability.
  As a governing body member and writer of wacthtower articles he will have directly affected thousands of peoples lives.If there was the possability that people could read the information he has , by chance , by seeing on the net he could help more of those he affected.Is this not more important, than earning some cash?
  The vast majority of ex-witness who write on the net do so for free, why is his case different?
  This is not about being stingy I again repeat I have bought the book and would have done even if it was on the net.
  I am disscussing the principle , not attacking the person .I do not know Franz and am sure he is a nice guy.
  All anyone has said so far is he needs to earn some money.How about those the information would help?