zophar

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Posts by zophar

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  43

  Did Ray Franz Help You To Get Out of “The Truth”?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i sneakily read his books at work.

  it was written in such a way that no one could accuse him of being another bitter old apostate.. once it registered in my brain, especially after reading the second book, i knew i had to get out!.

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  zophar

  A number of years ago, about 25 yrs ago now, I did business with a man who was a re-activated JW after being DF. We just had a short conversation. He told me that while he was DF he had read Ray Franz's book CofC. I was an elder and he knew that, and he told me it was eye opening and very revealing. Not much more was said, but after I read it for myself, I wondered, why he ever went back to get reinstated. Of course, it could have been family pressure etc.

  What I remember most was the way he portrayed the book as honestly written and eye opening. Up until that time and for some years later I had expected a vengeful hate ridden memoir from Franz. How refreshing when I read for myself the honest portrayal from a man who truly did suffer a "Crisis of Conscience."
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  36

  Faders Needing a Great One Liner

  by Solzhenitsyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so our family fade is well under way.

  we changed congregations as regular attenders and left in good standing with those giving hugs and kisses simply knowing we "needed a change".

  we moved to a neighboring congregation that is out of our original region knowing we would see no one and the two boe's wouldn't really have immediate dealings.

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  zophar

  Wasanelder Once

  Great suggestion. Asking the question takes all the pressure off of you.
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  12

  Narrow mindedness annoying

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  none of the brothers and sisters in indonesia were hurt or lost in the recent disaster, according to one of the friends who added "we were all praying for them as soon as we heard it on the news, as you do.

  and what about the rest of the population?

  i know its nothing new in their attitude to the world outside in general, but it makes me so angry!

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  zophar

  Blondie..... you are far to reasonable to be a normal JW!

  Recently an Elder offered a Congregation prayer after a disaster:

  "Jehovah, please help not only our Brothers and Sisters but all those in need of help at this time."

  Pretty unique.
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  9

  Contaminated Thought System

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in gathering the last little bits of info for my book i tracked down different people, that i have known for many decades.

  some are still jws and many have made the break to freedom.. one of the people i contacted was a woman i knew over forty years ago.

  she like myself was a "born in.

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  zophar

  I'm from your same generation, you have me beat by a couple years.

  Yes, it stays with you. It is very difficult to be open-minded or be able to think independently for yourself being raised in a JW culture.

  I guess I was always a bit of a rebel. A friend who left the Organization about 8-9 years ago, tells me how he always admired my ability to think for myself despite what the Org tells us to think. I don't know if that is completely true, but I'm glad that is the way I appeared to him and evidently others. Yet he is now completely free from the Organization and I am not able to say that for now. If you ARE a person who tends to think for himself and you are a JW serving in an appointed position, you are always viewed with suspicion by the dyed in the wool minions.

  However, over the years, I found that there were people with very responsible positions, CO's, DO's and even at least one in the Service Department at Bethel, that revealed a bit of ability to think outside the Organizational box. I always wonder, where are they now in their thinking?

  Recently had a discussion with a Bethel Overseer who had lots of responsibilities. (He was there when you were.) He has had a lot of bitter experiences with the Organization since he left Bethel, and yet, still he remains a JW. Old habits are indeed hard to break.
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  11

  Paradise After Death:Mark Twain calls out some of the stupider ideas-

  by Captain Schmideo2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "in paradise, i am going to visit [insert favorite bible character here]" - said at least once in their life by every devout jw.now, for some hard, cold practicalities-excerpt from "captain stormfield's visit to heaven"“oh, there are a lot of such things that people expect and don’t get.

  for instance, there’s a brooklyn preacher by the name of talmage, who is laying up a considerable disappointment for himself.

  there’s millions of people down there on earth that are promising themselves the same thing.

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  zophar

  Good point Steve2. And, he was told, build an ark for you, your wife your sons and your sons wives. So what was the purpose of preaching if God already knew no one would get on the ark?

  A man like that has a lot of time to think about how he used his life! Don’t need me hugging on him.
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  17

  JWs using 'apostate' phraseology?

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've mentioned before how a regular pioneer used the phrases "tight-pants tony" and "don't drink the kool-aid".

  well the other week, a different regular pioneer, and elderly one in fact, was talking about the simplified watchtower being discontinued and the normal one replacing it, and she said 'i guess they're just gonna dumb-down everything'.

  then too even the org itself used the words "fade" and "shun" in recent articles, words that were previously shied away from.. anybody here experienced something similar, a seeming pimi saying something that makes you wonder if they've been sneaking ex-jw 'spiritual food' on the side?.

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  zophar

  It is interesting that if you Google the phrase: "tight pants tony" it seems to only direct to "Apostate" sites. It is possible either they personally have visited those sites or they could have heard the expression from another JW who visited such sites. It could be possible that someone created that phrase independently but probably not.

  It seems incredible that 1,000's of PIMI JW's who regularly use a computer at work and home, would not see "Apostate" sites at some point. How many have the self-discipline required by JW.org to not at least click on one or more of those sites? Once there, whether they know it or not, a seed is planted. What they do with that nagging doubt that arises says much about them as a person. Does their conscience not require them to at least investigate?

  Going from PIMI to PIMO to POMO is sometimes a long, long process.
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  242

  Do You Think President Trump Will Be Impeached?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whether you like him or not.... it doesn’t matter.

  do you think he will be impeached?

  ?.

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  zophar

  John Kerry is currently on a "Book Tour"

  Mike Pence may be the Incumbent President but I think President Trump will find a way not to run in 2020.
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  59

  Who Do You Think Will Be The Nominees For President In The Next US Election?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think trump will be the nominee for the republicans and the democrats... i have no clue.

  i hope bernie sanders runs again and wonder if hillary would dare go for a rematch..

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  zophar

  John Kerry is out and about on a "Book" tour.

  Mike Pence 2020 Republican Candidate. He may be the Incumbent President then anyway!
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  61

  Suicides

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been on the phone the last to two weeks calling people i've known over the last forty years most of who are still jehovah's witnesses.

  some of these people who didn't know i was "out" talked to me and some who knew i was "out" still talked to me.

  some of the those people are even elders.. by book new boy will be dedicated to all the people who have killed themselves because of being a jehovah's witness or knowing others who were jehovah's witnesses.

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  zophar

  I think I have read and enjoyed all of the excerpts from New Boy. I found them very informative and enlightening. This latest thread about Suicides has me puzzled.

  I don't think I am seeing everything clearly on this. I agree with Exelder AS REGARDS THIS THREAD. As I say I have read the other threads from New Boy and loved them. But why this turn? Naming names of those who killed themselves without knowing THEIR story? I don't see it. I think it could do great harm.

  New Boy's posts are generally about first hand accounts that he experienced. The Olson story for instance, is tragic and should be told, but I would be cautious about going into areas of people's lives that could do tremendous damage to people who are already emotionally fragile.
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  61

  Suicides

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been on the phone the last to two weeks calling people i've known over the last forty years most of who are still jehovah's witnesses.

  some of these people who didn't know i was "out" talked to me and some who knew i was "out" still talked to me.

  some of the those people are even elders.. by book new boy will be dedicated to all the people who have killed themselves because of being a jehovah's witness or knowing others who were jehovah's witnesses.

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  zophar

  How many suicide names might you add to your book once you expose someone who has talked to you and is mentally struggling right now?