TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  3073

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  We can always ask Dijana how she feels about giving Evans the benefit of the doubt. She's had a front-row seat to all the good he has done, after all.
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  3073

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  Elena: leaving the JWs was his downfall with no moral compass anymore.

  The moral compass provided by the organization didn't do him much good, since he was already engaging in immoral behavior while he was in. He was, in essence, already practicing 'JW Lite.' Is that the kind of person that JW Lite protects and allows to remain in contact with others in the congregation? Because that sounds like a good reason to try 'JW Zero' instead.
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  39

  Snakes had legs until Eden curse! Watchtower 1880 till 1974!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  often flicking through watchtower bound volumes i would see pictures of eden which shows the snake in the tree of knowledge with legs??

  even the photo drama of creation shows a snake with legs.. watchtower 1964 p.352 "genisis 3;14 {snake}on your belly you will go and dust you shall eat...before god curse it the snake had legs, that elivated it above the ground...god transformed it's body so that it ceased to have legs and was able to move on it's belly.".

  god's eternal purpose 1974 "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimized by satan.. forrest gump watchtower science is price-less!.

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  TonusOH

  I have to admit, the story is much better if we assume that Eve was tempted by Quetzalcoatl.
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  3073

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  I would be surprised if he tried to sue them. There would be no sense in doing it as a PR stunt, like he is doing with the M7. He would need a tangible and positive result from suing the makers of TTATT. Either force them to reinstate him and his footage or --if/when the film is released and makes money-- demand a cut of the revenue.

  It wouldn't make sense to sue them in Croatian court; he would need to do it in a more sensible venue. And that opens him up to discovery, depositions, and cross examination. I don't think there is a half-measure here. In order to have a chance --however small-- of winning, he has to do it legitimately. And I think that the only possible outcome would be that he loses, and that the trial potentially provides years of additional material to pummel him with.
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  7

  Will unrighteous survive Armageddon new light?

  by ElderBerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible says there will be a resurrection of the unrighteous, and now they say it’s wrong to hope unrighteous loved ones die before the end because that would be stupid.

  yes it is stupid.. if identical twins both left the truth and one died just before armageddon and the other stayed alive then would he be killed only to be resurrected?.

  this new light doesn’t make any sense i know they say we just don’t know.

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  TonusOH

  That has always been a curious question, though. Is there a cutoff for when the opportunity for salvation can be lost? Is there a way to determine the chances of someone to achieve salvation based on the numerous scenarios on offer? Is it possible to improve your odds by dying young, or unexpectedly?

  The ambiguity keeps true believers from wanting to stray. But the alternatives make a common mistake- assuming that god is so bound by rules that we can find loopholes to salvation. While there is some merit to the discussion of certain actions --if a parent murders their children to guarantee their salvation at the cost of their own, is that a selfless act?-- it's a very slippery slope to dance upon if we assume that god, who sits outside of the rules, can be coerced into following them. Remember... there are no lawyers in heaven.
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  43

  Fading is better then completely leaving...comments?

  by Witness 007 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i got the internet in my house and realised it's all lies....but as a pioneer/ministerial servant i chose to fade.

  see i had family and friends who were fully strict witnesses.

  so i played the poor lost soul brother who is not sure what's happening.

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  TonusOH

  I faded almost unwillingly, since I found it harder and harder to go to meetings. I wanted to remain a JW, but I guess enough things bothered me that I lost interest. If confronted, I would have explained myself and probably been DF. But I think they left me alone out of concern that any action taken against me would affect my mother too much, and I wasn't stirring up trouble so they probably felt it was better to ignore me.

  I moved away from New York years ago and they've left me alone, though they could easily find me and talk to me. So I live my life as someone who is no longer in the org, but officially I am probably 'inactive' or something like that. If I had to make a choice between living as I wish and having to pretend to be a JW, I would leave. It's not only a suffocating situation to be in, but an insulting one as well, to be under their thumb when I know they are wrong.
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  43

  Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

  information packed.

  interesting take on paganism as well.

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  TonusOH

  I think it shows where the priorities of the WTS leadership have always been. Symbols are very powerful and effective tools. The WTS replaced the cross with the watchtower as a symbol. They could then criticize others for using 'graven images' while plastering that simple tower logo on their magazines and correspondence.

  It is also another way in which they pushed Jesus to the side. The symbol of his redemptive sacrifice and his role in humanity's salvation gets replaced by a corporate logo. That may well be the most cynical thing they've ever done.
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  3073

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  DerekMoors: So something is definitely off with [Dijanna].

  If Evans has been mentally/emotionally abusive towards her, then she will not step forward until she feels safe. And in an online environment, that is easier said than done. If she's a private person, she may well never address any of these issues with the general public. Which is her right.

  I get the impression that she has done as much as she feels safe doing, such as sharing photos and letters (which have had a considerable impact on Evans's attempts to sanitize his reputation). But I am sure even that turned out to be painful, and I'm sure he hasn't let her hear the end of it. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, because Evans comes off as a very controlling person, and he strikes me as the type who would use everything he could -including intimidation- to continue to push her around.

  At some point, she may feel safe enough to spill the beans, and I hope she is willing to. At the very least, it will keep some pressure on him. And if he has been abusive, then he deserves every bit of stress and anxiety that she can put on him.
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  27

  Governing Body's failed doctrines blamed on Jehovah's gradual revealment

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9w8zmgli0.

  ( starts at the 21:00 minute mark ) governing body member jeffrey winder reveals the real reason for the failed doctrines throughout the watchtower's 150 year history.

  he claims that the governing body are neither inspired or infallible.. the governing body do not need to apologize for getting doctrines wrong.. the governing body ''do their best with what they have and what they understand at the time.''.

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  TonusOH

  'Progressive understanding' has always been something they promote. God reveals things in due time and helps the GB to figure it out. When they are announcing these changes, they promote the idea that Jehovah has blessed them with this knowledge.

  But, now and again, they also explain that they are just human and can get things wrong. Which raises all kinds of questions. Is Jehovah this bad at getting his message across to his F&DS? Can we trust anything they say, when they admit that they can get it wrong at any time? How can they justify DFing people for apostasy if those people are the ones who got something right? And so on.
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  46

  UN scandal

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lately i did a lot of reading regarding the un scandal, the org being a ngo for 10 years.

  i tried to read both sides, the comments on jwfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.. and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanf and others.. while i am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.. .

  however, considering the whole issue, i think it comes down to one question:.

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  TonusOH

  JW Facts did a pretty good breakdown of what NGO status meant.

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php

  Among other things:

  As the letter outlines, Watchtower was an associated NGO, and to become associated required Watchtower accept the following:

  • that the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter;

  • have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach target or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;

  • have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programs about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting cooperation of the media.

  The opening paragraph of the 1991 application form, which the Watchtower was required to submit, contains an instruction to provide information yearly to the United Nations. It states:
  

  "provide us with proof of your organizations non-profit status and with an annual report on its activities related to United Nations."

  He also shows how their coverage of the UN changed during the time that the WTS was an NGO.