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  134

  THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the dilemma facing apostate jehovahs witnesses, or apostate dubs, as i have dubbed them, (no pun intended) is the very fact of their seeming success.

  one of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization.

  in that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the governing body, the watchtower society's teachings, as well as individual jehovah's witnesses, then that somehow means that jehovah's witnesses have no connection with jehovah god.

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  somebody

  What has the GB to show as credentials?
  LOTS.

  LOL
• 
  134

  THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the dilemma facing apostate jehovahs witnesses, or apostate dubs, as i have dubbed them, (no pun intended) is the very fact of their seeming success.

  one of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization.

  in that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the governing body, the watchtower society's teachings, as well as individual jehovah's witnesses, then that somehow means that jehovah's witnesses have no connection with jehovah god.

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  somebody

  Jehovah simply hasn't confronted them yet.

  Christ has not confroted them, yet.

  YouKnow,

  Do you belive in the twinity?
• 
  23

  WHY DO JW'S USE MORE OLD TESTAMENT THAN NEW?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  every book that is published, every magazine written ,highlights the hebrew scriptures as opposed to the greek.do you think it's because most christians stress christ's words and jw's need to be different?

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  somebody

  You Know,

  Since they were without dispute the very foundation of Christianity, and they liberally used the Hebrew text, how is it that Christendom considers it as relatively insignificant, even producing abbreviated versions of the Bbile that only contain the NT and Psalms?

  Please tell me if you agree with the following:

  what is implied by arguing that the Mosaic Law is still in force? In effect, this constitutes a repudiation of faith in Jesus Christ. Why is that so? Because such a view rejects the fact that Jesus fulfilled the Law, thus paving the way for God to terminate it. To persons who professed to be Christians but who were swayed by arguments in favor of keeping the Law, or some portion of it, the apostle Paul forcefully wrote: You are parted from Christ, whoever you are that try to be declared righteous by means of law; you have fallen away from his undeserved kindness.

  we cannot earn salvation no matter how hard we work. No salvation from sin and death would be possible without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Thus eternal life is a gift from God through Jesus Christ, an expression of extraordinary undeserved kindness and not payment for our works.

  Do you agree with this or not? This requires a yes or no answer because I'm really asking if you agree that Jesus fulfilled the mosiac Law thus paving the way for Jehovah TERMINATING it, or if you believe that keeping it or keeping any "PORTION OF IT", by believing in holding Christians to it.

  peace,

  somebody

  Edited by - somebody on 22 July 2002 22:47:23
• 
  23

  JW response to 23,720

  by ChristianObserver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  found this posted and thought it should be brought to the attention of members ......... "from: [email protected] .

  i have since had a chance to look into this matter.

  the numbers are way off beam and appear to have been exaggerated by someone.

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  somebody

  "From: Mattetria@aol.com
  Message-id: < [email protected]>
  
  
  I have since had a chance to look into this matter. 

  [email protected] obviously read and quoted what the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Inc. faxed over to the Panorama Reporter or show. This person used the same excuses in justifing the Publishing companys supporting NO protection for JW children. My guess is that [email protected] is a publisher for the publish company, and reading the WBTS exuse is what he or she considers to be looking into the matter.

  Thank you and Ill visit that discussion board on aol.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  23

  WHY DO JW'S USE MORE OLD TESTAMENT THAN NEW?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  every book that is published, every magazine written ,highlights the hebrew scriptures as opposed to the greek.do you think it's because most christians stress christ's words and jw's need to be different?

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  somebody

  My opinion is that they "use" the NT ONLY to use Pauls letters to the corinthian congregation as LAW. They actually do use the OT MORE than the NT in the flock book which basically tells elders how to follow and hold members to the Mosiac law.

  I got theatened with DFing when I tried to follow and imitate what Jesus said and not Paul, when I was involved it the Pharisee-like cult of JWism. And I've told anyone who ever asked me about the cult or who happened to be studying with the cult members that they really should be called Paulians and NOT Christians, by the teachings they make up and by making those teachings into rules by making them punishable offences and/or "sins".

  What the WTBS publications print and what they actually do are two different things. And they are fixing that by leaving out some chapters from the old book , in the new book released. They left out the chapter about what they think of those who still hold people to the mosiac law, because they do just that. It's proven in the elder's flock book.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  16

  The WTS Two 'Credible' Witness Policy.......

  by ISP in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  below is an excerpt from the branch letter to all congregations.. 'thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders in not authorized by the scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible witnesses'.

  it reaffirms the two witness policy.no surprise there...... but why does it say 'credible'?

  witnesses are witnesses are they not?

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  somebody

  Here are some hints...

  From the Pay Attention To The Flock Book (a book of rules written by the imperfect men at Watchtower headquarters but to be followed strictly by elders who are under the iron fist of these fellow imperfect men) This book is not to be viewed by the lower rank and file members who finacially support the WBTS. It's supposed to be seen by elders only: ...

  Unit 5b

  "The testimony of youths may be considered; it is up to
  the elders to determine if the testimony has the ring of
  truth. "

  "The testimony of unbelievers may also be considered, but
  it must be carefully weighed."

  Keep in mind that the WBTS's definition ( and therefore, the definition of IT'S believers ) of who "unbelievers" are have nothing to do with the Bible's definition of who "unbelievers" are. An unbeliever by a JW's definition is anyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness/WBTS follower.

  peace,
  somebody
• 
  21

  To Applaud or Throw Up - Which?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i pointed out the evidence that the society is sneaking away from.

  the blood issue to a 'loyal' relative.. she replied "well, that's good then, right?".

  sometimes it just takes your breath away!.

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  somebody

  Thought provoking and bringing back memories, metatron!

  Here is just one example of how the "society"{From now on, I refuse to capitalize that word and not capitalize Holy Spirit so as NOT TO IMITATE THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT sOCIETY} "told kids not to go to college".

  8/15/87 Watchtower

  [bold]What Advice to Follow[/bold]

  9 Your life is shaped not only by those you hold in esteem but often also by relatives and friends who, as they put it, 'want the best for you.' 'You have to earn a living,' they may say. [bold]So they may advise you to get a college or university education[/bold] to prepare yourself for a well-paying profession. 'The Bible writer [bold]Luke was a physician,' they may note, 'and the apostle Paul was instructed by the Law teacher Gamaliel.' (Colossians 4:14; Acts 5:34; 22:3) Yet, analyze carefully such advice.[/bold]

  10 The physician Luke never encouraged Christians to follow his former career example by becoming a doctor; rather, Luke held forth the lives of Jesus and his apostles for imitation. Evidently [bold]Luke became a physician before he learned about Christ but afterward put his Christian ministry first in life. The situation was similar with Paul. Rather than encouraging others to imitate him as he had imitated Gamaliel, Paul wrote: "Become imitators of me, even as I am of Christ." So highly did Paul value the knowledge of Christ that he said that by comparison he considered his former pursuits "as a lot of refuse."[/bold]-1 Corinthians 11:1; Philippians 3:8.

  11 Remember, [bold]sentiment can cause even those who love you to give poor advice.[/bold]

  Of course, if you showed this to JWs, they would say that this is only "encouragement" fom the WBTS. But if you see the questions that go with the paragraphs, it tells all. It states that "getting an education at a college or university" would be "wordly advice". That speaks volumes to JWs, eh?

  9. What worldly advice may those give who seemingly want the best for you?

  10. What advice did Luke and Paul provide, and what can be said about their pre-Christian activity?

  I'm wondering now if even what he said about Luke no longer being a physicial after he became a Christian or Paul being a Law expert. For I know he was a Pharisee and said to "Become imitators of me". When I was a JW, I noticed that I was FORCED to imitate Paul, over imitating Christ Jesus. The difference between the two, according to the Bible, is that one was an apostle, one is the Savior.

  Regarding Child ABUSE:

  Thank you Farkel, for the link to that IMPORTANT thread.

  I wish to add this:

  Kingdom Ministry 5/ 88

  The first thing a child should learn from [bold]infancy[/bold] is that he goes to the Kingdom Hall to listen. [bold]But if he is given things to keep him occupied, such as toys or food, or if he is allowed to play at his seat, will he learn to listen and appreciate why we attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall?[/bold] Admittedly, some children are more attentive than others. However, [bold]when a child misbehaves, the wise parent will correct him and lovingly train him to listen, not by bribing him with candy or toys, but by applying the discipline of God's Word.[/bold]

  What would be the "discipline of God's Word" to be applied from INFANCY? for "crying" BABIES, and CHILDREN in order to FORCE them to LISTEN to 5 hours a week of DEEP BIBLE STUDY?

  *** Watchtower 3/1/88 24-5 Responsible Childbearing in This Time of the End ***
  

  It has sometimes been observed that whereas some Christian men progress spiritually, even to the point of being assigned privileges in the congregation, their wives become spiritually weak. Why? Often it is because their young children prevent the wives from concentrating at meetings, doing [Bold]deep Bible study[/Bold], or sharing in a large measure in the witnessing work.

  Many Christian fathers do their utmost to share the load of looking after the children. They take their full share in seeing that their children remain quiet during congregation meetings. [bold]IF THEIR BABY STARTS TO CRY, OR IF THEIR CHILD BECOMES BOISTEROUS[/Bold], they in their turn will [bold]take it outside for appropriate discipline.[/bold]

  Peace To You All,
  Gwen

  editing to learn the new procedure for quoting and bolding and stuff. edit #3 doh!

  edit #4:

  {sigh} I knew I should have taken wordly advice and gone to college. I'll be go to hell if I can figure out how to bold! I'll use all caps for bolding till I learn.

  Edited by - somebody on 6 July 2002 11:12:29

  Edited by - somebody on 6 July 2002 11:13:56

  Edited by - somebody on 6 July 2002 11:19:33

  Edited by - somebody on 6 July 2002 11:39:51
• 
  71

  Cygnus is in bad shape

  by Cygnus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just so i don't miss anybody who is interested.... my results from the ekg and the echogram showed a severe leak in a heart valve.

  i am going for an angiogram on the 15th but the cardiologist says the liklihood is great that i will need open heart surgery.

  rare for a 30 year old but if necessary, it is necessary.. no word yet on the results of the blood work for liver enzymes and hepatitis.

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  somebody

  For you, Cygnus.

  http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4674

  Just a little bit of info here. I'm sure your doctor will tell you more.

  love,

  somebody
• 
  71

  Cygnus is in bad shape

  by Cygnus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just so i don't miss anybody who is interested.... my results from the ekg and the echogram showed a severe leak in a heart valve.

  i am going for an angiogram on the 15th but the cardiologist says the liklihood is great that i will need open heart surgery.

  rare for a 30 year old but if necessary, it is necessary.. no word yet on the results of the blood work for liver enzymes and hepatitis.

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  somebody

  Cygnus,

  You know why you'll be here forever?

  To keep alive all of us Last- Thursdayists.

  You're in my thoughts and prayers,

  somebody
• 
  71

  Cygnus is in bad shape

  by Cygnus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just so i don't miss anybody who is interested.... my results from the ekg and the echogram showed a severe leak in a heart valve.

  i am going for an angiogram on the 15th but the cardiologist says the liklihood is great that i will need open heart surgery.

  rare for a 30 year old but if necessary, it is necessary.. no word yet on the results of the blood work for liver enzymes and hepatitis.

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  somebody

  Cygnus,

  I love you man !

  Keep this in mind, please! Open heart surgery is very common today. Look up on the internet and read all you can about it. It is rare fore men your age, but really not uncommon when looking at the bigger picture as a whole. Heart problems are hereditary but SO fixable now, in the year 2002.

  I don't blame you for being scared or nervous. But reading about the procedure you MIGHT have done to you will be a huge burden off your strong shoulders.

  love,

  somebody...who will read for you and post what I read.

  Edited by - somebody on 3 July 2002 16:7:28