Posts by somebody

14

What's with such young "elders"?

by Gig in

jw
friends

how can the wts consider an unmarried man in his mid-twenties qualified to be an elder?

clearly the "theocratic" process of election by the holy spirit is not what's happening.

ever known any (too) young elders?

somebody

Speaking about elders in congregations. And I can't help but smile about what Princess said, for it is SO true!! How does a 25 year old councel a 30-60 year old about life in general and their PERSONAL relationship with God and their family?

You all might get a kick out of this

Watchtower May 1, 1955

Do Christians Take Honorary Titles? To appraise honorary titles intelligently we must know what the effect of using them is. Since they are a designation implying distinction and dignity, they create class distinctions. That is what exists among professed Christians today: the clergy and laity class distinctions. Early Christians were all brothers. They had no class distinctions, not the slightest trace of a hierarchy. If class distinctions cropped up, they were condemned and uprooted. Class distinctions were never condoned, as the Bible writer James showed: "You have class distinctions among yourselves and you have become judges rendering corrupt decisions, is that not so?" (Jas. 2:4, NW) Since honorary titles create class distinctions, could they really befit Christians?.......

What, now, of the title “Elder”? The Greek word translated “elder” in the King James Version Bible is presbýteros. Literally it means “older one” or “more aged one.” So it really is not a title. Paul said: “Make appointments of older men [“elders,” AV] in city after city.” (Titus 1:5, NW) Note carefully that those appointed to special privileges of service were not appointed to be elders but because they were elders or older men. The rule was that those who were to be appointed to be overseers (epískopos) over the flock of God were required to be “older men,” namely, those whose fruits of word, doctrine and conduct proved them to be “older men” or mature ones in a spiritual way. So the Bible gives no authority for using “elder,” “bishop” and “deacon” as honorary titles....... Since God’s Word condemns honorary titles, would it be wrong for a Christian to address a king as “King” or a judge as “Your Honor” or “Your Lordship”? No. When Christians address rulers and judges, they are addressing them as civil servants and not in worship or as spiritual leaders....... True Christians do not use any kind of honorary titles. It means much more: the use of honorary titles is a sign of false religion. Abandon such false religion. Practice true religion by associating with the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses. There are no class distinctions among these true Christians; all are brothers.......... “Let me not, I pray you, respect any man’s person; neither will I give flattering titles unto any man. For I know not to give flattering titles; else would my Maker soon take me away.”

Now (2003) consider that not only are elders in Kingdom Halls worth double honor, but their counsil should be as if God himslef spoke it! ( I'll find that quote too if anyone cares to see it...I KNOW i read it in a Watchtower, dispensing the good spritual food that they claim they do! ). No class distinctions? PLEASE!!!!

To this very day, the WBTS claim that they have NO CLASS DISTINCTIONS.

peace,

somebody/gwen

7

somebody

by somebody in

good day to all my fellow jw.comers,.

these are just some thoughts i had when reading the bible yesterday ( yes, i still do that daily, believe it or not.

revelation 3:12 (nwt).

somebody

Good day to all my fellow JW.comers,

These are just some thoughts I had when reading the Bible yesterday ( yes, I still do that daily, believe it or not. ) .

Revelation 3:12 (NWT)

12

"‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.

When Jesus prayed for his disciples, this is what he said in the following verses:

John 17:11,12 (NWT)

11

"Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me , in order that they may be one just as we are. 12 When I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me; and I have kept them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Can I get some opinions here? Does anyone else think that the "new name" Jesus was talking about in Revelation is Jehovah? If Jehovah is God's name, wouldn't that make sence? Is Jesus Jehovah?

Food for thought.

peace,

somebody/gwen

16

An Astonishing Gap In My Knowledge.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

parents converted to dubdom 1954.. commenced door knocking 1956.. baptised yankee stadium assembly 1958.. running 3 bible studies 1965.. giving public talks in many different congregations 1966.. ministerial servant, 2 jobs, 1966.. disfellowshipped 1972.. learned, via friday on h20, that the faithful and discrete slave class is the term used for the 144, 000 on earth, 2002.. during my entire witness life, commencing in 1954, right though until 2002, a time span of 38 years, i had always thought that the faithful and discrete slave term applied to the watchtower bible and tract society.. either i wasn't a very good student who's heart was never in the ways of jw's, or i was just picking up the general gist of things, i have no idea.

but, how could i have remained so uninformed and so undetected for all of those years?.

weird.. did you ever get it wrong about anything?.

somebody

To confuse this further I think you will find that the F&D slave is the remnant of the 144,000 not the whole group.

And to confuse a little more, the anointed are the Christian Congregation. All the other JWs are only associates of the Christian congregation.

peace,

somebody

16

An Astonishing Gap In My Knowledge.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

parents converted to dubdom 1954.. commenced door knocking 1956.. baptised yankee stadium assembly 1958.. running 3 bible studies 1965.. giving public talks in many different congregations 1966.. ministerial servant, 2 jobs, 1966.. disfellowshipped 1972.. learned, via friday on h20, that the faithful and discrete slave class is the term used for the 144, 000 on earth, 2002.. during my entire witness life, commencing in 1954, right though until 2002, a time span of 38 years, i had always thought that the faithful and discrete slave term applied to the watchtower bible and tract society.. either i wasn't a very good student who's heart was never in the ways of jw's, or i was just picking up the general gist of things, i have no idea.

but, how could i have remained so uninformed and so undetected for all of those years?.

weird.. did you ever get it wrong about anything?.

somebody

Hi Englishman,

Did you ever get it wrong about anything?

I thought that the 144,000 were all born in 1914.

peace,

somebody

10

An Armageddon Story

by jgnat in

jw
friends

my armageddon story.

i crouched with my family by the heavy lead-lined door.

a dozen faces around the room stared back at me, eyes wide, skin sickly in the weak fluorescent light.

somebody

jgnat,

You do write EXCELLENT ! I had a dream similar to yours when my children were very young and I could not make up my mind on wether I should go back to the JWs. By the time I had children, I felt if the JW teachings were right, my decision could effect my children's lives. I was suffering so much inner turmoil just trying to make the decision. Then one night I had a dream similiar to the one you had. I said so here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=5076&site=3 but never could bring myself to try and explain what happened in my dream and how real the dream seemed. So real that I never once again gave thought to going back into the sect. I lost all my ability to pray to God and wasn't even sure if I belived in God at all after I left in 1980. Once I was responsible for other lives, living with complete indisiveness and not having anyone I could talk to about my fear, I began to pray everyday in my mind. I needed someone to help me make my decision and understand my fear of both going back to the hall and raising my children to be conditionally loving and conditianally compassionate, and not going back and thinking that they'd die in armegeddon because I didn't raise them to be conditionally loving and compassionate. I felt that to raise them JWs would be the same as taking away the natural affection in them. Until I had that dream that was SO real to me! That dream came after a I had been praying for a LONG time!

I never did go back to a KH ever again. That dream I had was the best! It took the biggest burden I ever carried off my shoulders.

Thank you for sharing your dream with us all. I actually got a lump in my throat!

peace,

somebody/gwen

Edited by - somebody on 13 February 2003 9:57:44

Edited by - somebody on 13 February 2003 10:7:38

25

Is the GB and FDS the same thing?

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

this may have come up before in discussion so my apologies if it old stuff.

interesting point that the district overseer seemed to make a distinction between the governing body and the faithful and discreet slave class.

when i was growing up it was always the same thing.

somebody

Hi TheOldHippie,

and he was one of the saintly few who in proper time feeded his brothers,

ONLY the 12 GB members of the Watchtower INC. feed it's followers/adherehents food/publications from the publishing factory. It's a BUSINESS ! And that's what it wants. BUSINESS. Customers are supporters. Without customers, a business will fail. If a business throws God in the picture, then they will rake in much more supporters to donate money. The WBTS did not become a multi-million doallr business because God was behind it. It became multi-million doallar business using tactics that businesses use. Just like any other business, things will get slow and they will have to sell assets. Just as any other business, without customers, they can't make profit. CUSTOMERS make their profits and make them money. If the business had anything to do with God, it would just survive and that's it. It would not be worth multi millions of dollars and continue giving the impression to their supporters that they are poor and in need of donations to just cover the cost of printing and distributing.

peace,

gwen

73

Elders will be here in 10 minutes...pray for me

by Jacqueline in

jw
friends

elders will be doing a shepharding call in 10 minutes...why we have not attended meetings in so long.

i want nothing to do with the organization anymore....pray for me that i can keep my strength against them!

!

somebody

It appears my husband does not want to face the fact that the org is wrong....just wants to slowly disappear without facing it.

Maybe he's doing the slow fade. And a thought just occured to me. Does he use the computer when you aren't around? Maybe he's been doing some research of his own. If that's the case, he'll someday be able to talk about what he trulty thinks about the org. It usually takes time to be able to say outloud to another person that the org is nothing more than a multi-million dollar publishing company and that's all. That it has nothing to do with God.

peace,

gwen

25

Is the GB and FDS the same thing?

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

this may have come up before in discussion so my apologies if it old stuff.

interesting point that the district overseer seemed to make a distinction between the governing body and the faithful and discreet slave class.

when i was growing up it was always the same thing.

somebody

Back to add , because I just read your clarification, William.(better late than never.....sorry for missing it)

As far as i know, presently, all the GB members are of the 144,000. I do think that will change in the future though. I see that the same way you do on that. but i haven't read anything to say that any GB members are not anointed yet.

peace,

gwen

25

Is the GB and FDS the same thing?

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

this may have come up before in discussion so my apologies if it old stuff.

interesting point that the district overseer seemed to make a distinction between the governing body and the faithful and discreet slave class.

when i was growing up it was always the same thing.

somebody

Here is the latest i could find on the way the Faithful and Discreet/GB describe itself and the control over JWs it has given itself:

7/15/96 Watchtower

We need to submit to God's will and show deep respect for 'the faithful slave' and the Governing Body.

3/15/98 WT

8 The Bible clearly shows that true Christians do not serve God under coercion. It says: "Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom." (2 Corinthians 3:17) But how can this fact be harmonized with the idea of a "faithful and discreet slave" with its Governing Body?-Matthew 24:45-47.

9 To answer this question, we must keep in mind the Scriptural principle of headship. (1 Corinthians 11:3) At Ephesians 5:21-24, Christ is identified as "head of the congregation," the one to whom it is "in subjection." Jehovah's Witnesses understand that the faithful and discreet slave is made up of Jesus' spiritual brothers. (Hebrews 2:10-13)

This faithful slave class has been appointed to provide God's people with spiritual "food at the proper time."

the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is composed of ten anointed Christians, all with decades of Christian experience behind them. They offer spiritual direction to Jehovah's Witnesses, as did the first-century governing body.

The program of Bible education provided by the Governing Body might be compared to a school curriculum outlined by a board of education. Although the board is itself not the source of the material being taught, it does set up the curriculum, determine the method of instruction, and issue necessary directives. If anyone flagrantly refuses to live according to the requirements of the institution, creates difficulties for fellow students, or brings disgrace upon the school, he can be expelled. The school authorities have the right to act for the benefit of the students as a whole.

Of course I have to add that there is no such thing, scriptually, as a " first-century governing body" and it never mentioned in the Bible at all.

I conclude that the GB and the Faithful and Discreet slave are a twinity in the sence that they are one in the same. Consider the fact that NO ANOINTED that sit in congregations worldwide have anything at all to do with anything the WT publishes. They DO NOT disperse ANY SPIRITUAL FOOD. I tend to doubt that any of the GB members write any of the "food" published either. GB is just a title/badge they wear. I come to that conclusion from reading the words I just did above.." although they are not the source of the material being taught". But they do they make all the rules.

peace,

gwen

20

Happy Anniversary, Eman!

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

today marks two years of posts from our illustrious englishman.

it was on this day two years ago that he started out on his posting journey here.

his very first post was entitled: "is napster home for demons?".

somebody

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO YOU BOTH, ENGLISHMAN AND OZZIE !!!

YOU ARE TWO GREAT GUYS I TELL YA!!!

peace,

somebody......the former Chag from the H20 days