Posts by Swan

The thread about Bethel Cable Channels got me to thinking. What kinds of shows would you expect to find in their TV listings? Here's some I came up with, and a few I didn't even have to change the title.

Abandoned Brothers
Absolutely Frivolous
Any Day Now
Are You Being Observed?
Babylon Jive
Bewitched
Big Brother
Bootie and the Beast
Booze Clues
Cheers
Chitty In the Middle
Closet Case
Clueless
Daze of Our Lies
Desperate Housekeepers
Despising Women
Disturb Your Enthusiasm
Don Addams Family
Faulty Watchtowers
Flaw and Disorder
Fraude
Freddie Franz' Lying Circus
Greenlees Anatomy
Grounded for Life
Guiding New Light
Happy Daze
Hill Street Booze
I Dream of Weenie
Indecent Exposure
Judge Judy and Everyone Else
Keeping Up Appearances
Lost
Love, JW Style
Maulville
Max Headcase
Minimal Minds
Misfitting Science
Molested Development
No Love
Pastor Russell's Neighborhood
Prison Awake
SM*A*S*H*ed
Sad About You
Saturday Night Binge
Surreal or No Feel
Survival
Tails of the City
The Amazing Disgrace
The Ex Files
The Incredible Cult
The Kooks of Hazards
The Price Is High
The Shady Bunch
The Six Million Member Scam
The Smothered Brothers
Too Close For Comfort
Twenty Bored
Unamerican Idolatry
Unhappy Days
Voyage To the Bottom of Despair
Whose Life Is It Anyway?
Will and Disgrace

6

So, how many "Big Love" Fans out there and why?

by Madame Quixote in

okay, against all my preconceived notions against polygamy i have become an avid fan of the hbo series, "big love.

" i'm totally hooked on it.

and why, if you care to share?

Swan

Please see my response to you on the other thread as well.

YES! I love this show. I find it very thought provoking. And a bit scary. I hear the cult-like talk come out of their mouths and I flashback to my time in cult. I am amazed at the level of writing, that the actors can make these people so flawed, but yet moving. I even like Nikki, as flawed as she is, because I can see how screwed up her life must have been to make her this way now.

I hope this show goes on for several more seasons. It is just so interesting.

Tammy

47

Big Love: Polygamy Loves Company

by rebel8 in

don't tell me none of you watched this?????

it's a new hbo series on sundays at 10 pm.

it's about a mormon offshoot group, complete with a commune, child brides, and polygamy.

Swan

Yes, it really makes you think. What was mind-blowing to me was the whole idea of having an affair with your own husband! That was just something I had a hard time wrapping my mind around. Barb and Bill keep sneaking off to a motel, even though they are legally married!

I also loved Nikki telling off those self righteous Mormon pricks this week.

Another idea they got me to thinking about was how they view sexual relations before marriage. This was when Bill and Barb first started their "affair." Nikki and Margene were horrified to think that he was having sex with another woman before marriage. That is wrong, but if he married her, then she would take her turn like all of the other wives and it would be okay. That was also difficult to wrap my mind around, since it appears hypocritical to heterosexist monogamous culture.

It was the same in a recent episode of the Sopranos where Vito's homosexuality was decried by all of the other mobsters as immoral, but killing, brutally beating men and even women, theft, fraud, and adultery were normal. And it also depends on the context. If you are in prison then "you get a pass" as Tony told Dr. Melfi.

Very thought provoking TV. And Deadwood is back on in June. That will be good too.

Tammy

57

WAS THERE ANYONE FAMOUS IN YOUR CONGREGATION?

by badboy in

jw
friends

any takers?

Swan

My buddies!! Thanks Tammy, for including them.

I think what they did was very heroic, and I am very honored to know them. I am also truly very honored to know you Mulan, and your family too. I feel privileged for every day spent out of the JWs, and am so humbled by all of the other xJWs I have met. The rest of the world may not realize it, but what we have all done was a very courageous thing. Few who were never JWs can appreciate it. I have encountered some though, such as my therapist, who recognize our courage.

Maybe we should have a National Cult Escapees Day. Every year we could pick someone, like Ray Franz or Nicole Kidman, as our person of the year.

Tammy

186

God led me to the JW congregation.

by jw in

i rented a house in the late !970's and the contents in the home were given to me.. it happened to be books: ( making my life happy, revelation, children bible stories, listening to the great teacher ) i was enjoying the reading.. -----------------------------------.

a few years later began to notice awake magazines in doctor offices, and other public places and read them and enjoyed them.. ------------------------------------.

late 1980's my 7th son was 2 yrs.

Swan

Demons are here on earth they can still possess individuals.
As for my experience it is my experience and my families experience and only my family , I and God knows it is true.
I shared it . I can't make anyone believe it.

Well, with that kind of attitude, no, you can't make anyone believe it. You still haven't answered any of my questions, nor, I gather, are you likely to. If you won't even answer the basic questions people come up with, no one is ever likely to give any credence to your claims.

I have a problem believing in demon possession, but am willing to listen to your evidence. That brings me back to the question, did you call the police? Did they take fingerprints? Did they look for footprints? Was there any physical evidence that this was a demon possessed man? If my two-year-old claims a man tried to take him out of my home and the door was wide open, I would immediately dial 911. Most people would. Did you?

You act offended at others here who doubt your story, but you don't have any reason to be. I'm afraid that the eyewitness account of two-year-old just doesn't cut it and it's a ludicrous account without anything tangible to support it. It isn't reasonable to expect people to believe such a whopper. I think even some JWs might think you a bit cuckoo or think you are on drugs or something. Normal people don't believe this way. Now can you see why some people here might question your mental health.

Tammy

186

God led me to the JW congregation.

by jw in

i rented a house in the late !970's and the contents in the home were given to me.. it happened to be books: ( making my life happy, revelation, children bible stories, listening to the great teacher ) i was enjoying the reading.. -----------------------------------.

a few years later began to notice awake magazines in doctor offices, and other public places and read them and enjoyed them.. ------------------------------------.

late 1980's my 7th son was 2 yrs.

Swan

Well, You would have to have been there. And demons can take on any form. Our family discussions we had addressed all of your questions. And We have a family of 9 who all witnessed the events. In regards to the books , I don't get the importance of your questions.

With this kind of an answer to my questions, you can see why I and many others here do not believe your story. It sounds implausible and you do not sound credible. In fact, it makes you sound a bit loony, but I am trying to keep an open mind. If you want people to really believe what you are saying, some further elaboration seems to be in order.

Also, according to JW teachings, at least from about 1960 through 1993, JWs taught that the demons were cast down to earth as spirit creatures, but that after the great flood, they were forbidden from materializing human form any longer so that they could no longer mate with women and produce nephilim, giants who terrorized the world in antideluvian times. Unless they have changed that teaching, then you are either absolutely wrong about demons being able to take on any form, or you are teaching something contrary Watchtower teachings. If it tis the latter, be careful they do not disfellowship you for apostasy, since spreading false teachings and posting on this board are sufficient cause for a Judicial Committee to rule against you.

As to the importance of my questions about the books, it seemed to me to be quite obvious. You claim that God led you to the congregation. You claim that part of this was the books in the rental house. Then how did you come by those books. Where they actually from God, or were they just trash you found? If we are to believe your claims, you must give us more to go on.

Tammy

186

God led me to the JW congregation.

by jw in

i rented a house in the late !970's and the contents in the home were given to me.. it happened to be books: ( making my life happy, revelation, children bible stories, listening to the great teacher ) i was enjoying the reading.. -----------------------------------.

a few years later began to notice awake magazines in doctor offices, and other public places and read them and enjoyed them.. ------------------------------------.

late 1980's my 7th son was 2 yrs.

Swan

First of all, welcome. I see you have made many posts, but I somehow missed your first ones.

Second, I have not followed this whole discussion, admittedly, for I had a long day in jury duty.

But I did want to take the time to respond to your initial post. Please don't take this as an attack, but I have a hard time believing your story. A lot of questions pop into my mind regarding a story like yours. I am very skeptical after being duped by the Watchtower Society for 35 years. If you expect us to believe in a story based on the eyewitness testimony of a two-year-old, then I think you would agree that some questions are appropriate.

Your two-year-old had a developmental problem affecting his speech. Can you be certain that what you think your son told you about a man wanting to take him away was what he was really trying to communicate? Could he have been trying to say something else? Could he have made the story up? Children have such active imaginations. To them, their perceptions are very real. If they tell you there is a monster under the bed, they are not necessarily lying, for they actually believe in the monster because that is their perception. So are your sure your son was telling the truth, or his perception of the truth?

On the night in question, the one with the open door, did you have a burglar alarm? Was the door tightly latched and the bolt set before you went to bed. Are you sure? Was it in the summer and someone just forgot to close it because it was warm out? Did you call the police? Did they dust for fingerprints? Demons don't leave fingerprints. They were never born, and your unique fingerprints come from your unique development inside your mother's womb. I don't believe in demons, but from what I understand about demons, they were fallen angels, created by God, not born. So no fingerprints.

Were there any reports of prowlers in the neighborhood? Were there footprints on the walkway? Was anything inside or outside the house disturbed?

I think you can see where I am going with this. I'm trying suggest it is far more plausible if somebody forgot to latch the door or if a prowler entered your house and was surprised by your son. I don't think demons leave footprints, because, as I understand it, according to the JW faith, they can't materialize human bodies. They are spirit creatures. So finding footprints or fingerprints would go a long way to solving this mystery.

Now I have one other very important question for you to consider. If it was a demon who visited your son, why was the door open?

You see, if it was a prowler who came in, he would have to use a door or a window, wouldn't he? That would explain the open door. But if it was a demon, then why use the door at all. Demons don't use doors. They are spirit creatures.

So these kinds of inconsistencies make me very skeptical.

Now some questions, please, for you about those books. Who gave you the books in your rented home? Was it someone who no longer wanted anything to do with them? Were they actually given to you or just left behind as too unimportant to bother packing and moving? Did you know that some of those books written back then were written by Ray Franz of the Governing Body. He has since written other books that you may wish to read called "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom." Have you read those books?

So, you can see why I am unconvinced by your account. No offense. I just don't find it credible.

Tammy

57

WAS THERE ANYONE FAMOUS IN YOUR CONGREGATION?

by badboy in

jw
friends

any takers?

Swan

I never understood the hullabaloo about famous people in the JWs. Prince, Michael Jackson, Mickey Spillane, etc. Maybe I'm just not with it, but I could never quite figure it out. Glen Campbell was rumored to get baptized at the same assembly I was being baptized at. So what? My aunt couldn't attend her BIble Study due to a doctor appointment, so she had me and another sister go in her place. She was the sister of Pamela Reed. So? I like her acting, but whether her sister was a JW in my aunt's cong. just didn't seem to be important to me.

When Luke Skywalker said he wanted to be a great warrior, Yoda said, "Wars not make one great." To paraphrase, "Being a JW doesn't make one great." Here is what I think makes someone great or famous. Here is who I think was famous in my congregation.

Bruce Baker,

One of the few JWs in my congregation to wise up and get out. The only one to have the courage to talk to newspaper reporters about the Tacoma Dome parking lie the Watchtower Society was telling.

...and his wife and daughter, who also had the courage, smarts, and loyalty to stand by their family member instead of blindly following the commandments of about a dozen old geezers in Brooklyn, New York.

And there was me, who figured out something was really, really wrong even though I didn't have any hard facts. I only had a bunch of thought provoking questions that made me doubt, and it took great courage to make that great leap of faith that the JWs were full of crap and DA myself.

There are a few others in the congregations I attended, but I can't talk about them here because I would want to get their consent first.

In your congregation, well, all of you overlooked the obvious!

YOU! You are famous. You have done a very brave and courageous thing. You are far superior in intellect, wisdom, perception, and observation than the average Witness. All of those factors were very instrumental in your seeing the truth about "The Truth" and looking at things anew. You said to yourself, "Something is not right here." Your questions led to doubts. Your doubts led to searching for answers. And when the Watchtower offered nice neat answers all wrapped up in a bow, you didn't blindly accept them. You saw them as just more malarkey and dug further. And when you did realize it was all a sham, you had your own "Crisis of Conscience" and you took steps to get out of that situation, even if it is only to come and post or lurk on this board.

That makes you all famous in my book. Each and every one of you.

Maybe at the next apostafest, I should start collecting your autographs.

Tammy