My dad (a doctor, who never believed in JW but was baptized as one & was an MS for years) had a Porsche 911 while being an MS, literature servant, and well spoken of by the entire cong. Never was taken to the "back room" about it, possibly because most of the elders were middle-upper-class and had their own nice homes, cars, and congregational perks in the first place? Hard to draw the line on "materialism" IMO, especially since those most likely to get "privileges" are those who feel most at ease with themselves... IMO, those who had the benefit of a college education and "worldly success" before conversion.
SpiderMonkey
JoinedPosts by SpiderMonkey
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5
Shock encounter for the Apostle...
by TheApostleAK ini was waiting for a bus to get back to my house 3 days ago and guess who drove past in a car???
the first jw i ever studied with and who got me in to "the truth" (he's the same age as me, 24) .
he was driving a nissan sylvia (sports car...no-no 4 jw's) and he had his left eyebrow pierced.... i wonder what his story is??.
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Baptism - The Issue of Consent - for children
by Lady Lee inthe issue of consent .
the issue of whether a person has consented to a particular action is a core part of our social relationships whether they be personal or group interactions.
to participate in any social relationship a person must on some level consent to that participation.
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SpiderMonkey
Children also would not be fully able to consent to such an issue due to the fact that they are still developing in their minds. What a child wants at 10 or 11 is very different from what they want at 15 or 18. For a child to give consent at a younger age when his or her brain is not even developed enough to understand certain concepts which can only occur at a later developmental stage is absurd. To hold this child to his or her "consent" would be immoral.
LL, I thought this last paragraph nicely summed up your points. I was baptized at age 13, and have now and then mentioned to my JW mom how ridiculous it is to expect a 13-year-old to know what they want to do with the rest of his or her life. To no avail of course, but the logic is there.
The best way to avoid this problem is to never become a Jehovah's Witness. They cannot screw up people who don't vow to serve them.
Farkel, I think *this* misses the point. How do minors avoid doing something that massive peer pressure dictates they must do? They might resist, because of inherent pubescent tendency toward rebellion, but then again they might not. And if they don't, then do we blame it on the minor? Or the adult who embraced it all when he or she was a minor?
It would not just be "nice," it would be right. "Insane" only from the point of view of an authoritarian religion that has no interest in logic or ethics. The "questions for baptism" have no bearing on this debate, as regards baptism of minors. The question is whether minors have the right and/or capability to make a decision that impacts the rest of their lives. They don't. And the issue of "parental consent" on this issue is also irrelevant, when the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and want nothing other than for their children to become baptized JW's. Simply put, a minor does not have the capability to choose his or her life-long religion. To suggest that a minor makes a "choice" to become baptized as a JW is a joke. And the punchline is demonstrably NOT funny.: Anyone under the age of either 18 or 21 (I forget which it is for a legal contract) that was baptised is now null and void. So if you was either DF or DA, and baptised under the legal adult age, it was like the baptism never took place. (You are no longer shunned.) And for those who was bapised under that age, and still wants to remain, you will need to get rebaptised. Now I'm dreaming, but wouldn't that be nice
No, it wouldn't be nice. It would be insane.
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Here are good examples of being unethical
by Bleep incrazydrinker claims he has answered my posts in an ethical way here are just some of his posts that were unethical by the way.
i will address these issues that he has.. you know bleep, im sure someone would ask you about 'hellfire' if you knew what you were talking about, but since you dont, i doubt anyone will ask.
since i know that your answer will be wrong, why should i ask the question?
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SpiderMonkey
If you are talking about me, which would make sence since i am allways being singled out
You single YOURSELF out, constantly. How could you possibly view it otherwise? You post questions or challenges, and get answers, and more questions, in reponse. And then you ignore the answers, and you ignore the questions, and you claim that no one had a response to your question or challenge. Duh? Don't make like you're a persecuted saint; no one here believes that bowl of tripe (well, maybe You Know, but even he seems more logical than to fall for your trollbait stupidity).
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Any Brooklyn Bethelites from '93 - '98?
by back2dafront ini guess i should introduce myself for i am a new poster-boy :-) my name is jason howard and i currently reside in santa cruz, california.
i spent the first 24 years of my life as a jw, starting in danbury, ct, then to fayetteville & charlotte, nc, and finally brooklyn, bethel, where finally all of my negative inner thoughts and feelings were confirmed.
(from the ages of 14-24 i always felt something just didn't add up with the organization, but i could never quite put a finger on it) i spent my career at bethel in the brooklyn warehouse/purchasing departments and worked with some really great individuals.
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SpiderMonkey
Jason, I don't think we knew each other, but I was at Brooklyn Bethel from late 90 to early 94, on the waiter crew (Michael Casey; your name doesn't ring a bell, but then again the waiters were so separate from everyone else there I'm not surprised). Found your comments on Bethel life very interesting & true (Bethel was where I, also, started really pondering my feelings of doubt & unhappiness with the borg)! Feel free to e-mail me; I'm glad to meet you & would love to chat.
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It couldn't happen to a nicer person!
by ozziepost intoday it happened.
who would have thought it.
through thick and thin she's not been discouraged, well, not too much anyway.
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SpiderMonkey
RefinersFire the hornyPrisca the open. The supportive. The caring.
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Did man go to the moon?
by sleepy indid man go to the moon?.
just watched an amazing programme that claimed the moon landings were faked.i was supprised at how compeling the evidence against a moon landing was.anyone know more about the subject?.
if it is true that this didn't happen it raises a whole lot of questions about how trust worthy our governments are.
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SpiderMonkey
No links or evidence to post; just weighing in, here: I think the evidence against a real lunar landing is about as convincing as the evidence against a real Holocaust. Both are conspiracy theories created by people who have more time on their hands than common sense.
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smoking-"if one ERRS"
by somebody inzev, posting as "somebody"
*** w96 1/15 18-19 jehovah's sheep need tender care ***.
if a new one errs
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SpiderMonkey
I smoke, but what gets my goat is when smokers toss their butts on the ground. Taking carcinogens into your lungs is a personal choice IMO; you will pay a higher rate for health insurance, and rightly so, and you risk disease and early death, for no good reason (yes, I, a smoker, admit all this). But throwing TRASH on the ground is stupid, selfish, and lazy. One of these days I am sure that when at a red light, when I see someone in another car toss a butt out the window, I will put mine in "park," get out, pick up the butt and go toss it back into the offender's vehicle, saying, "here, you dropped this." It pisses me off to no end.
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Prayer
by larc innow that i am a long away from religion, i have to ask, what is the need for this prayer thing?
now, god knows everything, right?
well, so what is the need for prayer?
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SpiderMonkey
More like a lucky 8-ball, if you accept the usual definitions of God and prayer in the first place. But I don't accept those definitions at all. God is us, and prayers work (sometimes) because we have the power to make prayers, wishes, hopes, dreams, goals, or whatever else you want to call them, work.
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Is the Bible Really the Word of God?
by gumby inis the bible really the word of god?
while sitting in my garage having a smoke, i reached up to an old publication (which i keep handy on my shelves).
it was the book stated above.
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SpiderMonkey
Paul was CHOSEN, RAILROADED, FORCED, RAMMED, CRAMMED, STUFFED and BUTTENDED into serving God. HE WAS LITERALLY BLINDED into God's service and put in chains to serve God, and NOT by his choice. Funny thing is, after it happened,HE LOVED IT. When was Paul CHOSEN for this operation of God?
Gal 1:15-17
15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his graceThis is all so very sick. No other comment.
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Is the Bible Really the Word of God?
by gumby inis the bible really the word of god?
while sitting in my garage having a smoke, i reached up to an old publication (which i keep handy on my shelves).
it was the book stated above.
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SpiderMonkey
anyone that is chosen by God is as much a piece of crap as the next guy... God's will is to choose who HE wants out of all the pieces of crap out there in the world. Man has no say on who's picked nor can he do anything right to be picked. All a piece of crap can do is crappy things... The truth is: No one has a choice on being chosen. It's God's choice alone...He decides who's sheep and goat, He decides who's wheat and weed, He dictates who's right and wrong, He decides what pieces of poo shall be chosen, called, justified an then glorified. What's that mean? It's ALL OUT OF EVERY MAN'S CONTROL. ME, YOU...EVERYONE.
Eeeeeeyucchhhh. Thank you, pomegranate, for so perfectly illustrating why organized religion makes me feel queasy. People choose to believe they have no control over who "gets saved," because they don't want control over their own lives. But they DO want to feel "special." So they convince themselves that the religion that they themselves chose is the one true religion approved by God (whether a specific religion like Catholicism, or a general religion like Christianity), and that God chose them - rather than the obvious truth that they simply chose a religion that made them feel good. You claim that everyone, even those "chosen by God," is a piece of poo, not elite at all. And yet you claim that it is God's choice, rather than man's decisions to believe and do certain things, that brings benefit to an individual. Sounds like an elite to me. An elite arbitrarily chosen by a tyrant. Gag me with a spoon. Predestination is now, and has always been, a rather stupid doctrine.