Posts by stevieb1

9

Reasons To Believe (Dr. Hugh Ross)

by stevieb1 in

is everyone familiar with dr. hugh ross and his organization reasons to believe?

i have learned much from this ministry.. hugh ross is a trained scientist and pastor who specialises in marrying the bible with science (both of which are records of truth).

he has an msc and phd in astronomy and was a post-doctoral fellow with the california institute of technology.

stevieb1

Is everyone familiar with Dr. Hugh Ross and his organization Reasons To Believe? I have learned much from this ministry.

Hugh Ross is a trained scientist and pastor who specialises in marrying the Bible with Science (both of which are records of truth). He has an MSc and PhD in astronomy and was a post-doctoral fellow with the California Institute of Technology

Reasons to Believe does not have a denominational affiliation but believes in the inerrancy of scripture. It provides research and teaching on the harmony of God's revelation in the Bible and in the facts of nature. They produce a quarterly magazine called "Facts for Faith" and host a weekly radio ministry.

CHECK THEM OUT ON www.reasons.org

Tell me what you think of their resources.

12

Does God Use An Organization - Debate With Elder!

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i have read tom cabeen's excellent work "does god work through an organization" which i wholeheartedly support.. a while back a jw elder sent me a document which he had written entitled "the christian congregation and the twentieth century" in which he tries to prove that god is using an organization on earth today.

i am requesting your help in refuting these claims.

the most significant claims of this document i will present in several parts on this board.

stevieb1

I have read Tom Cabeen's excellent work "Does God Work Through An Organization" which I wholeheartedly support.

A while back a JW elder sent me a document which he had written entitled "The Christian Congregation And The Twentieth Century" in which he tries to prove that God is using an organization on earth today. I am requesting your help in refuting these claims. The most significant claims of this document I will present in several parts on this board. So onto the first page, the elder makes these statements:

POINT 1 "Who could read the message of Christ to the seven congregations (Revelation 2-4) without concluding that the individual members were united in a communal or organisational sense?"

POINT 2 "it is very significant that the figurative expressioons applied to the congregation, although numerous, almost invariably emphasize that the individual Christian is part of a structured group. In the imagery of scripture the Christian is likened to a soldier in an army (2 Timothy 2:3) a stone in a temple (1 Peter 2:5) a slave in a household, a member of a family, a member of a priestly order (1 Peter 2:9) and part of a worldwide brotherhood (1 Peter 5:9). The point of all of these analogies is surely lost if we are to assume that the individuals are united by nothing more than shared beliefs. Furthermore, it can be demonstrated that the same language is applied to a latter day congregation."

So these points form the introduction to this short thesis. This, in the mind of this elder is a demonstration "that the first century congregation was an organised association......"

How would we respond to this?

12

I need your advice

by cecil in

jw
friends

i need your advice: i have written a letter to my branch office regarding my problems with the 607-chronology 60+ pages with short references about the issue, that i have collected through the past 9-10 years.

at the end of my letter i asked 14 questions 7 questions regarding the biblical evidence against the 607 bce-chronology and 7 questions regarding the historical and astronomical evidence against it.. the letter i received as an answer did not contain anything that could qualify as an answer or even an attempt to answer my questions.

i called the branch office by phone and talked to the brother who had written the answer.

stevieb1

The weight of evidence against 607BCE is indeed immense and largely undisputable, and I reckon that the Society know this only to well. My theory is they will let the old battered chronology of the "seven Gentile Times" slip away gradually or they will continue to hold to this untruth to their detriment.

If you are a baptized Witness, any further letters disputing the "accepted chronology" could cause you trouble in the long run as they will begin to treat you the same way as they treated Carl Olaf Jonnson who wrote The Gentile Times Reconsidered. Letters from the Branch Office will be couched in love and concern for your spiritual welfare but the truth is they will want to silence you and "protect the flock". They may already suspect you of reading "apostate" literature by raising the subject in the first place.

Regarding any further correspondence with the Society, I would certainly err on the side of caution. Part of you may want to "sock it to em", I know, I have also felt that way, but with closed minds your research, however true will usually be rejected as "running ahead of the organization/Jehovah." My guess is that accurate Biblical research that is sent in to the Branch Office is not taken seriously unless you are of a high rank and preferably one of the "anointed". You may hope that the Society may turn around suddenly and send you a letter to the effect that "we accept your findings and will announce the truth of the matter at our next
district convention, but,this miracle has yet to happen.

The knowledge that you have acquired on 607 (and probably other matters) brings with it responsibility. You may feel obliged to speak up for truth, and this is commendable, but you also run the risk of being disfellowshipped and losing any friends you may have in your congregation. So my advice would be to to leave it as a matter of prayer, because God know's best and he will guide your conscience in the right way. I would also ask you to pray that he will reveal the correct path to others that have a responsibility to speak out for the truth - the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Regards

Steven

11

Shephering Visit - Update

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

you may have read my thread from last week entitled "my personal turmoil" in which i discussed my congregation elders wanting to meet with me to "encourage" me to believe that jehovah is using the watchtower society as his organization.

i said in that thread that i had told them to leave me alone, well anyway on tuesday night the same elder phoned me to accept a "shephering visit" and again i refused.

not taking no for an answer he approached me again in the kingdom hall on thursday and told me that i must accept a shepherding visit out of necessity because i was in spiritual danger and the elders wanted to "help".

stevieb1

I was baptized in 1988. I believe they changed the two questions circa.1985?

Love to see these so called dedicated to the organization vows challenged in court!

3

Shepherding Visit - Update

by stevieb1 in

you may have read my thread from last week entitled "my personal turmoil" in which i discussed my congregation elders wanting to meet with me to "encourage" me to believe that jehovah is using the watchtower society as his organization.

i said in that thread that i had told them to leave me alone, well anyway on tuesday night the same elder phoned me to accept a "shephering visit" and again i refused.

not taking no for an answer he approached me again in the kingdom hall on thursday and told me that i must accept a shepherding visit out of necessity because i was in spiritual danger and the elders wanted to "help".

stevieb1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may have read my thread from last week entitled "My Personal Turmoil" in which I discussed my congregation elders wanting to meet with me to "encourage" me to believe that Jehovah is using the Watchtower Society as His organization. I said in that thread that I had told them to leave me alone, well anyway on Tuesday night the same elder phoned me to accept a "shephering visit" and again I refused. Not taking no for an answer he approached me again in the Kingdom Hall on Thursday and told me that I must accept a shepherding visit out of necessity because I was in spiritual danger and the elders wanted to "help". Again I refused.
Anyway to cut a long story short the Presiding Overseer approaches me and literally forces me to look at Jude 22 with him which says "also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire..."

I know that if I accept a shepherding visit all they will try to do is "prove" to me that Jehovah has an organization on Earth as His channel of communication, when I know full well from the Scriptures that this isn't the case. They won't be there to listen to what I have to say, because to them it seems so logical that He has an organization on Earth today. We will be just going round in circles, and because I won't accept their reasoning I will be labelled as rebellious etc, etc.

Now this is a good bit, the PO told me that because I didn't accept all the beliefs JW's hold as their own I was reneging on my dedication vow that I made before I was baptized. I told them unequivocally that I had dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to an organization, but he told me that dedicating myself to Jehovah meant accepting all the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. Where does loyalty to TRUTH come into this? Am I contractually bound to the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses?

I will let you know of any further developments.......

11

Shephering Visit - Update

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

you may have read my thread from last week entitled "my personal turmoil" in which i discussed my congregation elders wanting to meet with me to "encourage" me to believe that jehovah is using the watchtower society as his organization.

i said in that thread that i had told them to leave me alone, well anyway on tuesday night the same elder phoned me to accept a "shephering visit" and again i refused.

not taking no for an answer he approached me again in the kingdom hall on thursday and told me that i must accept a shepherding visit out of necessity because i was in spiritual danger and the elders wanted to "help".

stevieb1

You may have read my thread from last week entitled "My Personal Turmoil" in which I discussed my congregation elders wanting to meet with me to "encourage" me to believe that Jehovah is using the Watchtower Society as His organization. I said in that thread that I had told them to leave me alone, well anyway on Tuesday night the same elder phoned me to accept a "shephering visit" and again I refused. Not taking no for an answer he approached me again in the Kingdom Hall on Thursday and told me that I must accept a shepherding visit out of necessity because I was in spiritual danger and the elders wanted to "help". Again I refused.

Anyway to cut a long story short the Presiding Overseer approaches me and literally forces me to look at Jude 22 with him which says "also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire..."

I know that if I accept a shepherding visit all they will try to do is "prove" to me that Jehovah has an organization on Earth as His channel of communication, when I know full well from the Scriptures that this isn't the case. They won't be there to listen to what I have to say, because to them it seems so logical that He has an organization on Earth today. We will be just going round in circles, and because I won't accept their reasoning I will be labelled as rebellious etc, etc.

Now this is a good bit, the PO told me that because I didn't accept all the beliefs JW's hold as their own I was reneging on my dedication vow that I made before I was baptized. I told them unequivocally that I had dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to an organization, but he told me that dedicating myself to Jehovah meant accepting all the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. Where does loyalty to TRUTH come into this? Am I contractually bound to the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses?

I will let you know of any further developments.......

4

I need a little research help!!!!!

by AngelofMuZiC in

jw
friends

i am wondering if anyone knows where i can get a copy, or download a copy of pastor russell's sermons, and "the time is at hand"..... i need them for ammo...i am trying to show a witness friend the truth about the truth, but she wants to see original documents...can anyone help?

it would be greatly appreciated.. my regards,.

joanne

stevieb1

If chronology is your interest then try this site www.607v587.com

4

I need a little research help!!!!!

by AngelofMuZiC in

jw
friends

i am wondering if anyone knows where i can get a copy, or download a copy of pastor russell's sermons, and "the time is at hand"..... i need them for ammo...i am trying to show a witness friend the truth about the truth, but she wants to see original documents...can anyone help?

it would be greatly appreciated.. my regards,.

joanne

stevieb1

Pastor Russell's Sermons is a huge volume of nearly 1000 pages! This and many other items can be viewed from:

www.heraldmag.org/olb/Russell.htm

You can download the entire file or view online. If you choose the latter you must use Adobe Acrobat Reader. Most PC's have this software built in, if not you should be prompted to download it.

The Time Is At Hand (of which there were many versions in print at one time) can be accessed from the following URL:

www.agsconsulting.com/start.htm

Click "Harvest Truth Database (HTDB) and choose Time is at Hand. This site contains 50,000 pages of Russell's writings.

Both sites are connected with some of the Bible Student movements that claim to be the true followers of Pastor Russell's original teachings.

The book "Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" whilst being a monumental work does not to my knowledge contain any specific quotes from any of the above works of Pastor Russell.

If you require any material from Proclaimers then please state your requirements on this thread and I'll extract them from the WT-CDROM.

6

My Personal Turmoil

by stevieb1 in

i am still one of jehovah's witnesses, although i disagree with a number of the tenets of the watchtower society.

i feel that i cannot preach their version of the "good news" to my neighbours and i told an inquiring elder from the congregation that i felt that their was a gulf between the society's version of the good news and that preached by christ.

they now want to give me a "shepherding call".

stevieb1

Thank you all for your concern. It is very much appreciated.

Just to update you, I have kept my thoughts to myself and not given the elders any reason to disfellowship me and over the past few days I have not been approached by them. Yesterday at the meeting the body of elders went into the Kingdom Hall library for a little conference which could have been about anything, but the last two elders to come out of the room were the same two dealing with my case. Even if I am reading too much into this, you can be sure that my refusal to accept the "shepherding" visit was part of the agenda.

Agape

stevieb1

2

Insight For Living & Chuck Swindoll

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

has anyone ever heard this radio programme?

chuck swindoll is a wonderful bible expositor with a christ-like manner.

his humour and use of illustrations is first class.

stevieb1

Has anyone ever heard this radio programme? Chuck Swindoll is a wonderful Bible expositor with a Christ-like manner. His humour and use of illustrations is first class. I am deeply moved as I listen to his ongoing exposition of Ephesians. You can find his radio messages archived on www.oneplace.com. Has anyone heard him speak?

Well worth it!