Apognophos

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Posts by Apognophos

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  10

  My views.

  by ivanatahan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is more of an introductory post discussing my views and background than anything else, really.. i was, unfortunately, born into this religion.

  my mom was, and still is, a pioneer (or as some call it: "piousneer"), and my father is an elder.

  admittedly, up until a few months up to a year back, i was indeed a zealous "servant of jehovah".

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  Apognophos

  Welcome! It's true that the Society's arguments against evolution are dubious and facile. They serve well enough for those who want to keep believing in the religion, though.

  On the subject of the organization and on mental issues among Witnesses, I think the two are basically one and the same. The personality of an organization is derived from the founder/leader and trickles down through levels of management. So you have to look at the top and ask yourself what sort of people have led the organization and picked their successors.

  The most important were probably Russell (a practicer of numerology, and a celibate though married), Rutherford (an angry, cynical contrarian and egomaniac), Knorr (a cold businessman, also another married celibate), and Franz (a very aloof man who inherited Russell's flair for numerology; a life-long bachelor).

  Since the organization is a high-control group (i.e., anti-individual), its followers are expected to adopt somewhat uniform personalities, with an emphasis on subjugating the self and following orders, and holding beliefs which reflect the personalities of the leaders. How could anything healthy come from such an organization? It's no wonder that born-ins are a weird bunch of people. That's besides the fact that the conspiracy-theory folks and assorted societal misfits are drawn to the religion as converts.
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  10

  Those of you stuck in with kids&question about spouse

  by All for show in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is killing me now that i am awake, having kids in school and having to be jws.

  birthdays, christmas, thanksgiving, having to go home or be left out because their teachers know they are witnesses and/or have kids from the school in their class or grade.

  it's a small town so the other jws in the hall know what's going on since their kids are in the same school.

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  Apognophos

  He says he won't do anything the FDS says that doesn't have scriptural merit

  I told him we don't agree with all they say so why do we go there? Then he says I've gone overboard and hate the society.

  If he knows about the flaws in the blood doctrine and about the organ transplant ban that both have cost many Witnesses their lives needlessly, he doesn't have any reason to defend the Society. If he doesn't know about those things, why haven't you told him? Personally it just sounds like he doesn't want to leave his comfort zone.
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  12

  Wasn't a letter about the NGO situation read at the Hall?

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  okay, so i've been seeing the occasional comment here and there on the forum that some jws, even elders, do not seem to have heard about the society ever being an ngo.

  am i not remembering accurately?

  back when this scandal happened (2001?

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  Apognophos

  Thanks for the feedback so far, this is surprising. I seem to recall hearing the letter read as part of the announcements in my congregation at the time. I specifically remember the library access being mentioned. As I was not reading any material critical of the religion back then, that I can recall anyway, I don't think I could be mis-remembering where I heard this.

  Years later, I came on sites like this and saw the letter for myself, but I have been under the impression this whole time that everyone heard this letter read in their congregation back in 2001. I wonder if it's because the friends were talking about the rumor in my cong., and maybe in your congregation, sloppyjoe2. [Edit: Island Man beat me to this hypothesis while I was typing.]
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  10

  good question ( sorry about the f word )

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Apognophos

  Have a look at Dr Richard Carrier's lectures on youtube

  I might do that -- I watched another one of his already and it was interesting, but not detailed enough for my liking. I'm planning to get some books on the subject to consider the mythicist case more carefully.

  I'm already of the opinion that Jesus may not have said/done most of what's in the Gospels; and if he did live, but almost nothing in the New Testament came from him, then it's about the same as if he didn't exist at all.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

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  Apognophos

  Viviane, your logic is indisputable, but I didn't suggest that the complexity of "creator+universe" could be less than just "universe" -- only equal to it, or maybe just a bit more than it (conceivably within an order of magnitude, e.g. creator+universe only being 2x or 4x as complex as the universe alone).

  And to recap, Occam's Razor is not a law of nature, so even if the creator makes the picture 10x as complex, this is not necessarily meaningful in estimating probability. After all, complexity is not the sole indicator of probability.

  It could be that the formation of a creator according to the laws of a different universe was much more likely than the formation of intelligent life on earth; a number of non-religious scientists have stated that our own evolution could be an extreme fluke event.

  We can also see lots of examples in nature where evolution chose to do things in a more complicated way than is necessary, when its "creations" are looked at as finished products. The more complex approach that nature used only makes sense to us once we understand the steps it followed to get there.
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  10

  good question ( sorry about the f word )

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Apognophos

  Sure, but that's off-topic.
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  12

  Wasn't a letter about the NGO situation read at the Hall?

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  okay, so i've been seeing the occasional comment here and there on the forum that some jws, even elders, do not seem to have heard about the society ever being an ngo.

  am i not remembering accurately?

  back when this scandal happened (2001?

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  Apognophos

  Okay, so I've been seeing the occasional comment here and there on the forum that some JWs, even elders, do not seem to have heard about the Society ever being an NGO. Am I not remembering accurately? Back when this scandal happened (2001?) and the Society withdrew their membership, wasn't there a letter read during the announcements in the service meeting explaining the Society's reason for their membership (the famous "library card" excuse)?
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  10

  good question ( sorry about the f word )

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Apognophos

  I don't see anything on a linguistic level concerning the names of the apostles to support the idea that the gospels are a myth.
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  19

  A LETTER FROM MY MOTHER...since learning TTATT

  by Blackfalcon98 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so ive recently: joined the forum, read cofc, began reading combating cult mind control.....and today i gotta letter from my mother.

  i thought i'd share it with others so that i can gain some hidden insight, and perhaps just to encourage someone else here who has relatives who are still mentally locked in.

  dear blackfalcon98.

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  Apognophos

  Let's face it though, this isn't about a little facial hair, it's about your attitude. I'm sure your mother has observed that you do not have respect for the religion like you used to, if you would give up privileges in order to observe Movember. You can't blame her for extrapolating from that and becoming upset because she sees you going astray.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

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  Apognophos

  Well, I agree that the places for God to "hide" in the universe seem to disappear every time we peer into them with science. I'm still hesitant, however, to extrapolate from what we have learned inside the universe to what may have happened outside the universe at its start (if there is an outside, and many scientists think there is, insofar as they believe there are multiple universes).