Posts by Apognophos

20

How does the WT feel about dating methods?

by Christ Alone in

i'm talking about dating methods that scientists use such as carbon 14, potassium-argon, rehydoxylation dating, etc.... .

i know that many christian fundamentalist groups speak of how false early dates can be reached by many of these dating systems.

but i was wondering how much the wt rejects them.

Apognophos

This is a good question. I don't have the CD-ROM available at the moment, but I don't recall any detailed discussion of dating methods by the Society. I think it's a matter of "don't ask, don't tell". The Society knows that it doesn't have a self-consistent stance (esp. since dating methods are somewhat verified by each other) and so it knows that simply not discussing the subject is the best policy.

Since you mentioned the strange stance that some creationists follow in suggesting that the decay rate of C14 changed over time, here's an interesting fact: the rate of creation of C14 is determined by the amount of radiation that passes through the atmosphere from outer space. If something major happened to the atmosphere, say, 4800 years ago, that allowed more radiation to enter, then that would radically alter the production of C14. Other factors such as the magnetic field and volcanoes affect C14 levels. However, scientists sound confident that other dating methods have now confirmed the general accuracy of C14. So a number of years ago, the Society could have attacked C14 dating with some confidence, but nowadays it's just one of many dating methods in use and they can't attack them all.

33

Why would anyone think the 7 times of Daniel 4 should have two fulfillments?

by jwfacts in

each prophecy in daniel had only one fulfilment.

why believe inconsistently that daniel 4:9-32 should have two fulfillments?.

daniel 2: an immense image representing kingdoms.

Apognophos

Jeffro: I am aware of those date ranges the Society has written about, and still think that 1919 is not dependent on 1914 (not if they don't want it to be). The period of Dec. 1914 - May 1918 "floats" between 1914 and 1919 as a disconnected period of time. Neither the start date or end date is based on 1914. That's right, even "1914" is not based on 1914! Why do I say that? As I mentioned here with citations, Dec. 1914 marked the announcement of the 1915 yeartext "Are ye able to drink of My cup?" and May 1918, as we know, was the release of Rutherford from prison. Yet, the start of Jesus' reign has always been held by the JWs (even when they thought it was the end of the Gentile times) to be Oct. 1914.

More importantly, that time period has no direct bearing on 1919, which was marked by the Cedar Point convention. Yes, you're correct that the Society constructed a timeline where Jesus' presence leads to the 3.5 years leads to the 3.5 days leads to the appointing of the F&DS. But it's a timeline of independent points that can be moved around without needing an "anchor point" in Oct. 1914. This means the WT can state that, upon reflection, 'we do not know the day or hour of Christ's return, but it had happened by 1919' (or whenever), and then point out that various signs of his presence such as world wars "prove" that it took place in the early 20th century. They can then continue to rely on concrete dates such as May 1918 and Cedar Point 1919 as significant points in the history of God's servants without the need for a questionably-derived 1914 date.

At least, this was the line of thought that I arrived at after I searched the literature for any direct connection between 1914 and 1919 and came up empty. If you can show me where this connection is made in WT literature, I will admit my error and correct my earlier posts.

33

Why would anyone think the 7 times of Daniel 4 should have two fulfillments?

by jwfacts in

each prophecy in daniel had only one fulfilment.

why believe inconsistently that daniel 4:9-32 should have two fulfillments?.

daniel 2: an immense image representing kingdoms.

Apognophos

Actually, some of us have suggested that 1919 is going to "replace" 1914, in the sense that 1919 is a separately-derived date that does not rely on 1914. It's sufficient for the WT to say, "Jesus' reign began some time in recent history and he inspected his household and identified his faithful servant in 1919", if they ever want to drop the 1914 teaching.

40

1914 - It was the end of the world as we knew it - things got much better!

by TheStumbler in

i was having a conversation with a jw relative recently i casually mentioned how much better the world is than a few centuries.

obviously the jw was incredulous.

the next day i found an email in my inbox listing a few qoutes from notable people saying how the world has gotten much worse since 1914 and that 1914 was a pivitol year.

Apognophos

Yes, I agree, the points about gays won't help. "If" he thinks homosexuality is wrong, then to him, society is getting worse; equating freedom of sexuality with freedom of religion isn't going to help your argument.

14

As a Jehovah's Witness, how did you feel about the prospect of god killing millions of babies & children?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i've got to say that it repulsed me.. yet, i knew one brother/elder who always commented that he wanted 'to see the wicked being destroyed.'.

twisted beyond belief..

Apognophos

Ugh. Thanks, I hadn't seen that material. It seems that the Witnesses I grew up around were not in the habit of talking about the subject (probably because it made them uncomfortable, why wouldn't it?). I would feel nauseous if I actually still believed this stuff might happen.

13

are wt writers inept or trying to repel clear thinkers?

by prologos in

in the "what does the bible really teach" book, an attempt is made to illustrate the nature of satans challenge, as it explains suffering allowed to prove jehoahs' souvereignty.

on page 110 is given the illustration of a bright kid stepping up to the blackboard to show the elderly teacher (probably head of the teacher union chapter) * a more elegant way to solve those equations.

wt equates that situation to satans challenge.

Apognophos

Another more apt version of the illustration would be if the teacher said, "Okay, class, we'll let Jimmy take it from here on. He may or may not know what he's doing, but he's your teacher until the end of the year. If he does a good job, I guess you'll be able to pass the final exam. Have fun." Meanwhile the other kids protest that they'd rather keep the adult teacher, but no one listens to them because Jimmy spoke up first about doing things his way and now they're all going to have to deal with the consequences of his smart little mouth.

24

Mars speaks!

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

exciting news from nasa, have they found evidence for water, life or bigfoot?.

grotzinger says they recently put a soil sample in sam, and the analysis shows something earthshaking.

"this data is gonna be one for the history books.

Apognophos

Oh wait, it was just a piece of the robot that fell off earlier. But hey, we found it!

83

Relationship Issues: Boundaries, Freedom of Choice and Codependency

by 00DAD in

relationship issues: boundaries, freedom of choice and codependency .

i just read a very interesting thought in the book, "boundaries" by cloud & townsend.

the basic problem in human relationship is that of freedom.

Apognophos

Another hair post. A comment was once made during a study that one of the ways we show consideration for our fellow brothers is by not shaving our head too shortly when working at RBC sites. You see, the brothers who come over from California to help at the build associate a shaved head with gang members, so it is intimidating to them to see brothers with shaved heads working alongside them. Thus, brothers are asked to let their hair grow out while working on the project. I am pretty sure even the faithful R&F were thinking, "WTF?" after that comment. How many more Pharisaical rules can they come up with?!

60

New video: Stephen Lett warns about "Women's Lip"

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=citaz613koc.

.

cedars.

Apognophos

That opening with the singers absolutely cracked me up. Maybe I'm the only one seeing it for the first time (certainly I'd heard the song before), but it's amazing how something old-timey like that, which was originally sincere, can seem incredibly sarcastic in another context. Anyway, well-made video, cedars.

54

When You Were Sitting During The Meetings What Were You Really Thinkng About?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i used to listen to all the stupid comments and wonder if i could sneak out of there and scram!

even after i resigned as an elder, i went for a while and eventually began missing more and more meetings.

but while i was there, i'd listen to comments, chuckle to myself how dumb it all was and then go home with the knowledge that my days were numbered there..

Apognophos

Never thought about sex or the sisters, as I was doing my best to restrain my libido like a good little Christian. Mostly imagined stuff that had nothing to do with the meetings. Like MrFreeze, I would frequently imagine the Hall was being assaulted by armed soldiers and what kind of violence I would do to them in order to take back the Hall (and I never even saw movies like Die Hard!). Sometimes my OCD would flare up and I would stare at the back of the friends' heads and imagine giving them a quick buzzcut to tidy up all that messy "long" hair. Crew cuts for everybody!