Posts by DeWandelaar

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

That question has always conflicted with my beliefs... and it still does... Furthermore... When I started to fade and was reading the yellow Bible story book to my son it suddenly striked me: I was reading to my little son about death and destruction... at an early age... I could not continu doing that!

Also God himself states the following in Ezekiel: c The soul who sins shall die. d The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. e The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, f and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

This is quite the opposite of what is stated in exodus 20:6:

I punish children for their parents’ sins to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. 6 But I show mercy to thousands of generations of those who love me and obey my commandments.

I do still not think that exodus should be taken literally though it has the looks of a contradiction

38

Yet another Septuagint manuscript using the divine name found

by slimboyfat in

larry hurtado mentioned on his blog that yet another early manuscript of the septuagint has been found that uses the divine name instead of lord (kurios), this time representing the divine name with ancient hebrew letters (yhwh) in what is the earliest extant copy of the psalms in greek.

hurtado argues that the use of the definite article before the divine name indicates that the manuscript relies on earlier copies that used lord (kurios), but the fact remains that all the earliest copies of the septuagint that have survived use some form of the divine name and none use lord (kurios) as a substitute.

that's about ten out of ten for manuscripts of the septuagint earlier than mid-second century c.e so far.. http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/new-oxyrhynchus-manuscripts/.

DeWandelaar

@slimboy... I do not know if you read my reply about the septuagint? The septuagint is no more then a greek translation of the old testament. We already know that in the old testament the name of God was being used. As for the use of Kurios in the NEW testament: they have given themselves permission to change Kurios into the godsname in every sentence the word is being used unless it does not fit their teachings...

38

Yet another Septuagint manuscript using the divine name found

by slimboyfat in

larry hurtado mentioned on his blog that yet another early manuscript of the septuagint has been found that uses the divine name instead of lord (kurios), this time representing the divine name with ancient hebrew letters (yhwh) in what is the earliest extant copy of the psalms in greek.

hurtado argues that the use of the definite article before the divine name indicates that the manuscript relies on earlier copies that used lord (kurios), but the fact remains that all the earliest copies of the septuagint that have survived use some form of the divine name and none use lord (kurios) as a substitute.

that's about ten out of ten for manuscripts of the septuagint earlier than mid-second century c.e so far.. http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/new-oxyrhynchus-manuscripts/.

DeWandelaar

Well... the Septuagint is still just a (greek) translation of the Old Testament... and therefore is not proof that the Tetragrammaton was used in the New Testament or something.

The WT$ has implanted the "name" in the New Testament based on one or two scriptures that were quoted of the Old Testament. However... they are NOT being consequent with translating Kurios. When Jesus for example is using a parallel and uses Kurios for "Lord" they do NOT translate it with the "name". You see? They are only cherrypicking when it fits their doctrine

6

What if JW.org Was Hacked?

by jw07 in

what would the governing body do if their precious website were hacked and redirected to one such as this or jw struggle for hours or even days?

what if their site was hacked to expose ttatt on the front page, and their video content replaced by videos from people like thesnarkyapologist or danmera?.

what do you think the damage control strategy would be like?.

DeWandelaar

Well... apart from the fact that it is illegal... pointing it to sites like this one will only damage "us".

1. They know to which site it is linked and gives a strong indication that that site is the source of the attack. So a lawyer (of which they have many) will totally destroy this site (and users that hinted about a attack) by lawsuits.

2. Like someone else said: It proves to them that they are being proscecuted and therefore are proven right in their eyes, hence, I even think they will mention it on conventions to prove it to others.

3. It doesn't help the cause of sites like "ours" but only make everything more polarised... you will not be able to make a diehard JW think by hacking the site.

81

What evidence is there for the miracles of the Bible OUTSIDE of the Bible?

by punkofnice in

ok. this is something i've wondered about.. people of certain religions tend to use their own holy book as evidence for things in itself.

this seems very circular to me.

using the book to prove the book in my view is pointless.. i am not aware of any of the 'miracles' of the bible or the quran as having any substantial evidence outside of themselves to give credibility to the books themselves.. has anyone come across such evidence?.

DeWandelaar

The problem with miracles is that they stop being a miracle if it is scientificaly proven. Wikipedia says: A miracle is a phenomenon not explained by known laws of nature , or an act by some supernatural entity or unknown, outside force. A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature. Others suggest that God may work with the laws of nature to perform what people see as miracles. [2] Some theologians say that, with divine providence , God regularly works through created nature yet is free to work without, above, or against it as well. [3]

So is there evidence other then eyewitnesses (who died in the past)? No... there is no evidence... but... it does not mean that wonders did not happen.

68

Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?

by cedars in

it's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.

the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.

wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.

DeWandelaar

1. Organisation, Organisation, Organisation!

2. Hypocrisy

3. Encouraging youngsters to do something usefull with their lives and in the meanwhile destroy it

4. Shunning

5. Forbidding Blow-Jobs

6. A lot and a lot more...

20

The WTS has an ANSWER/SPIN for everything! Acts 12:15

by Socrateswannabe in

per the ministry school schedule, the bible reading continues in the book of acts.

in chapter 12 king herod arrests peter and throws him in prison, meaning to "produce him" for the jews after the passover (evidently to be executed).

an angel appears to peter in prison, releases his bonds and walks him out of the gate of the jail.

DeWandelaar

They really like to twist things around that's for sure

22

Feeling numb and alone

by DeWandelaar in

since some time i post here on this forum... i am always willing to help people or to express my opinion if it helps someone.... i have already posted something about myself but i haven't told much about my history.. i am married with a nice wife and i have three kids (two of my own and a stephdaughter).

since a year i do not go to meetings and i unofficially stopped with the "truth".

i had a meeting with some elders expressing my concerns with the teachings and with the slave.

DeWandelaar

Thanks for the comments... the thing is that it all started with the disapproving looks by people in the hall at my kids that made me rethink my JW-life... I felt disapprovement all my life and I was not going to swallow it for my kids as well!

Something snapped when they wanted to have a chat with me about my kids after hall so I told them clearly and harshly that EITHER they were going to talk about it immediately or I would go home afterwards without a word.

They objected that the meeting was starting but I told them to shut up and come with me immediately and settle it which they actually did.

I was looked down to in my time in the hall when I was a youngster because of the same reasons... I was always spoken to by elders in my birthplace. If that was the hardest part then I did not mind but not only in the hall I never felt welcome... I was bruised and battered at school as well... How I survived the bullying and lack of love in my live I do not know but I do know that it fucked me up big time.

Nowhere I was I felt myself truly happy you know...

I have battled for 35 years to beat the odds but feeling "lonely" does not go away... I have a hard time targeting my feelings sometimes although I have good social skills in general...

I was in a lot of events THE person to tell your problems to though... When I was 14 a elderly child molester who studied with me (which I conscidered a friend) told me about his past (he hadn't done me wrong fysically though) ... even a lot of women told me about the fact they got raped (some by "brothers", some by wordly people), marrial problems, problems with their sex (some were gay)... I was their friend in all situations. They conscidered me strange but wise at the same time... something the elders said at the last meeting I had with them: some people may not want to visit because you can have very deep discussions. He told me even I was a bit "weird" as well... not an ordinary person. Well thanks a lot moron...

I do try to get more nice hobbies (like growing my own plants and greenery like tomatoes, strawberries and courgettes)... we even sell it online as a company now but I am just like my son... I get bored quickly and can not sit down and simply enjoy sitting in the sun... I become restless within 5 minutes.

It is just not cool being me sometimes you know... My MIND knows that is absolutely bullshit since I achieved a lot in my life already but my FEELINGS and EMOTIONS are strangling it all the time lately... Normally I cope with it well enough but at times when it is very quiet at work (like it is for some weeks now) my mind and emotions go hayware.

I am totally bored. I am looking for a new job now and the knowledge that I may get a new job etc helps a lot but yesterday I was a complete wreck.

That I was awake yesterdaymorning till 3.00 AM didn't help either... and I woke up at 6.30!

To my dutch friends: thanks for the supporting words as well... did not know Gorbachov was dutch :)

22

Feeling numb and alone

by DeWandelaar in

since some time i post here on this forum... i am always willing to help people or to express my opinion if it helps someone.... i have already posted something about myself but i haven't told much about my history.. i am married with a nice wife and i have three kids (two of my own and a stephdaughter).

since a year i do not go to meetings and i unofficially stopped with the "truth".

i had a meeting with some elders expressing my concerns with the teachings and with the slave.

DeWandelaar

Since some time I post here on this forum... I am always willing to help people or to express my opinion if it helps someone...

I have already posted something about myself but I haven't told much about my history.

I am married with a nice wife and I have three kids (two of my own and a stephdaughter). Since a year I do not go to meetings and I unofficially stopped with the "truth". I had a meeting with some elders expressing my concerns with the teachings and with the slave. They told my I was on thin ice and encouraged me not to express these feelings with others. They thought I was disappointed with people and although some of it is true it is not what caused me to stop. But... I was thinking: I can do it the hard way (bringing myself to the point to officially stop) and the "easiest" way (fading). Although I was fierce in the beginning (before the meeting) I started to choose for the fading road.

Now... some couple of months (almost a year) later I feel numb and quite alone... the easier way is a hard way since I am now in a sort of "vacuum". I am no witness... but I am not in "the world" either. I feel a lot like a dead man walking really... as if my life stopped there...

As of family: my mum passed away 2 years ago and my sister 3.5 years ago (within a week she died of leucemia)... My father who raised us in the truth has "betrayed" me as well and totally lost control of his own life after the passing of my mum. I understand it though it showed me first of all that HIS faith did not help him very much.

The relationship I have with my wife is ok but for some reason the only time we "make love" is when we have drunk a lot... and even then... it just does not happen often. I do not blame her (she had a lot of bad experiences in the past) but it just adds up to the numbness I feel.

And my kids? My first son is so extremely energic and disobedient that it fustrates the shit out of me... and my youngest is following the example...

Together with a worse financial situation (2013 has been a really bad year for me) I seem to loose my grip on my life entirely.

I know that writing this down does not help me in any way (except that I shared it with "strangers") but I feel alone and the only thing I see is nothingness.

Sorry to bother you guys... but noone else seems to listen to me

15

should I stay or should I go?

by Crazyguy in

i haven't had my dc yet and after reading about what's being said on saturday i was thinking about not going in protest as they are not being christ like.

will this be a good technique for my kids or should i go and endure the crap and then say a few things to my children while they're listening to this garbage?.

DeWandelaar

I do not even know when "our" DC is... My wife is still going to the hall but I never hear about the DC... Hope it stays that way