Posts by SusanHere

i am divorced and have custody of 2 beautiful, well-behaved children, ages 9 & 6. their father is a jw and i have drifted away, so i could say i'm mostly out of the org.. when they are with me we do not go to meetings, but when they see their father every other wkend they go meetings with him and his wife, and sometimes to service.. i have read that many of you were brought up in a divided household where one parent is a jw and the other is not.

SusanHere

Not a former JW, nor from a JW/nonJW household, but can I add a small comment anyway?

I'd strongly suggest you find a church you can attend that you feel comfortable with, even if not "ideal" for you, just so that the religious indoctrination of a formal nature (i.e. meeting attendence, congregational hymn singing and praying, etc.) aren't all from one point of view that you can no longer support. If you don't want the JW lifestyle to be the one your children accept, you need to give them an alternative that is better, so that they can see the difference for themselves.

Good luck and God bless.

Susan

67

Spirits/Entities - A question for all.

by Nemesis in

i would like to ask a question if i might: how do ones here view spirits?

(not the alcoholic kind) i have left the org.

now for at least 5 years, although i did go to the memorial last year, but not where i used to go to the hall; i was not df or da.. .

SusanHere

Hi, Nemesis,

When it comes to spirits, visions, etc. it is a very simple matter. Those who have had them, believe in them. Those who haven't, usually mock those who say they have. God bless the open-minded who have not experienced them but are still willing to allow that they might be real in the lives of others.

Bang, what a great listing of dream verses. There are also verses about prophecying in the last days that go hand in hand with the dream verses. Despise ye not prophecying, that sort of thing. I suppose those verses had to be included because there have always been those who saw and heard things that others didn't and were ostrasized for it (spelling?).

Coming from a long line of women who have had dream visions, waking visions, etc., including beloved JW family members who do admit to still having those dreams. I know better than to be so quick to say someone else cannot be experiencing similar things. Those dreams and visions I have experienced have definitely been a gift from God in my life, and a blessing to my family. I am thankful for them.

Spirits, good and bad, are real. Your job seems to be learning how to deal with them in a way that is positive for you. Good luck in the journey.

Susan

125

Ya'll dont believe in God?

by flower in

jw
friends

i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.

i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.

this is disturbing!

SusanHere

Hi, Flower,

I wish I could reach out and hug you, to give what comfort that could afford. But maybe even that is not what you can take comfort from at this time. Many have never learned to accept such tokens of compassion and understanding.

I feel for your pain, and your confusion. I was there, too, though not with JW background, thank goodness, but with the religion of my youth. By the time I was 12 I knew it was not for me. Does that mean, though, that it is not for anybody else? No. I don't believe that. Part of my birth family is still with that faith, and it is more or less meeting their needs, since their need for religion is very superficial, and that's what it affords in its present form. Sadly, it has morphed from a much stronger religion to the weak and watered-down relic it is today.

My sister also left that religion to become JW, and has been now for several decades. It is the focus of her life. She has used it to justify some horrible decisions I know God would never approve of from a mother, a wife, or even just from one of his followers. The religion has not brought her happiness, but it has met some of her needs, and helped bind the wounds of a most tragic childhood. She continues to believe if she is not as happy in it as she expected to be, it can only because she herself is not living it as totally or as perfectly as everyone else seems to be. So the more unhappy she is, the more she throws herself into the work. I do believe God knows her heart to be honest, sincere, terribly wounded, and fragile and will bless her for her efforts someday. I believe the same can be said for the rest of my JW family members, who now number many.

Flower, you are now adrift, and need to find a spiritual home. Some in here, as in the world, have found they have no need for spirituality in their life. But you, obviously, are not one of them. You have a deep love of God, though not of the organization. There is nothing wrong with that. Every church has those people who are drawn to it to fill their own needs. Some have a love of pagentry, some of mystery, some of meditation, etc. It is not by chance that there are so many religions out there.

I do believe we all have a need to find our way home to God. Some turn away from that for a while, but may return to it in another stage of their lives, such as when children are born, or when prolonged illness or sorrow strikes, when the winds of adversity blow across their door, or when they become stooped with age. Others find their way back to God when joy and beauty fill their souls to overflowing, and they need to give thanks to God who created all things that are good in our lives.

I do believe also that as long as we are seeking to find a closer bond with God, that he will lead us to himself. The mistake comes in being part of an organization, standing with it even when our spiritual growth tells us its time to move on. That's where you are now...moving on. Enjoy the journey! Let go of the negative teachings regarding other religions that you have heard all your life. Go out into the world and seek for truth. Visit other churches, talk to other people about what they believe and why. Read their books. Pray for wisdom. All religion has a measure of truth. Take what is true, take what is good, and then move on. Eventually you will find your spiritual home with good and likeminded people. I'd like to tell you where to look, but the journey must be your own.

Good luck and God bless, Flower.

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, Andi (Billygoat),

Wow, what a wonderful posting! Thanks so much for your kind words to which I can only add a very LOUD AMEN!!

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, refiners fire,

You said, "As a(n investigator) to the church I heard little of eternal progression...the focus was upon 'Jesus'." Actually, it is impossible to separate the two. Jesus came because of the doctrine of eternal progression. The doctrine of eternal progression is only possible because Jesus came. They cannot be separated. Two halves of the same coin. As an investigator, things are taught in very basic form, while as a member, things are taught in more detail. Detail, as I have learned to my dismay when attempting to teach someone not ready for anything other than basic information, usually overwhelms and confuses rather than enlightens. Could that be why the Bible warns not to give meat to someone only ready for milk? Yes, undoubtedly. The same still holds true today.

You said, "The deeper...doctrines of Mormonism are unveiled...over time as he becomes more involved." Wouldn't this be true of any religion, for exactly the above stated reasons? Every Christian denomination, if following Biblical precepts, will use care in teaching converts to their faith so as not to confuse or overwhelm them.

I see evidence of that daily as people tell me they investigated the Church (LDS) but basically ran screaming from it when they learned we believe A, B, or C, when really they have it all mixed up in their own minds, and we DON'T believe in the A, B, or C that had their shorts in a twist.

They will insist, "Yes, you do! The Gospel Doctrine teacher said so!" Or, "Someone in Sacrament Meeting said so and nobody said they were wrong so it must be true!" The truth of the matter, if video could be replayed of the scene in question, is that the hearer heard something he misunderstood because he himself didn't have the foundation to put it in the proper context. So he assumed something was being taught that never was intended at all. Sadly, it happens all too often, despite our best efforts to be clear in all things.

Misunderstanding of doctrine causes all kinds of havoc. If people would just ASK about what they don't understand, or what they "heard" someone say, it could be cleared up very quickly for the benefit of all concerned, but few people do. Only the wise, actually. I admire those with courage enough to ask. They are the ones who are really trying to understand.

You said, "Does ...(the LDS Church) not believe in sin? Does (it) believe anything one deems fit to partake of is acceptable...?"

No, nothing could be further from the truth. Our doctrine is, "Wickedness was never happiness." Sin is very real. We must learn to choose walking in God's path, by faith, learning to choose good over evil, and to turn away from all that is unwholesome, loathsome, or evil. The best way to accomplish that is by turning towards what is good and brings joy. There is a reason Mormons are known for being happy, stable people. It's not an act. It's a way of life.

You asked, "If JS was married "for eternity" to a woman married to someone else "for time"...would (he have) sexual relations with her?"

As much as I detest this kind of lurid question as much for what it is not saying as for what it is, the answer is NO, he would not.

You asked, "Would it be correct to say that any one of my ancestors who is baptised while dead with myself a proxy...become subject to me throughout eternity?"

No. You would have their gratitude, but that is all. That should be more than enough since work for the dead is done for their behalf, and not for any hoped for reward of our own.

"Slippery issues" if meant to be doctrines beyond the basics, and not as easily understood as the basic teachings are, occur to everyone from time to time. The best thing to do is to ask, research (from honest resources), and pray. The answers are there to be found and we are meant to enjoy the journey!

Hope this helps!

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, Jerome,

I am going to presume your first statement was, "What do MORMONS think of JWs?" and respond to that since I have no idea what "morons" might think of JWs since I am not a moron and therefore can't speak for them! : )

Mormons basically don't think about JWs one way or the other. It is our doctrine that all men may worship as they choose. This includes women also. We don't tear down other religions to make ours look better. If what we have is worth having, as I know it is, then it will stand on its own, without resorting to hateful tactics, half truths, or slanderous statements regarding the beliefs and works of others. We don't teach about, discuss about, or print articles about any religion other than our own. We simply let others be about their business and ask that they allow us the same privilege. Very few other religions allow us the same courtesy we allow them, but that doesn't mean we should wallow in the same hog trough with them as they go about their mudslinging.

In my case, I have JW family and that complicates matters for me personally, but even there I find that if I stay out of the family fireworks, I'm better off. The Church (LDS) is right...it's best to simply let them be what they choose to be and wish them well as I go my own way.

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, refiners fire,

Wow, how'd I get so misquoted so quickly?

No time now, but I'll respond to your posting first thing in the morning. Meanwhile, reread what I said about Jesus. The anti-Mormons claim we don't teach of him. Not true. We DO teach of him. EVERYTHING we do is centered in him.

Okay. Tomorrow will respond. See ya!!

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, Yadirf,

You asked,"Why is it ONLY the missionaries...that go to people's homes to spread the Mormon beliefs (referring to the 2-year full time missionaries)?"

Answer is: It isn't. We all are responsible for missionary work. We all have the opportunity to do door to door work in our communities, if we desire to do so. My family does. However, there is a time and a season for all things. The full time missionaries, who put in approximately 10,000 hours of door to door work in their two years, knock on thousands of doors during that time. That is what they are called to do. They also teach classes, lead meetings, lead music, etc. Whatever they are asked to do.

The rest of us (and them also, both before and after their missions), have other responsibilities, in addition to every member being a missionary. The Bible outlines other duties of members, such as to strengthen one another, to teach, to visit those in need, to meet together often (inferring a need to have someone lead those meetings, set up for those meetings, etc.). If you cannot find such lists of duties of members in your scriptures, I'll supply a verse or two.

Most of us have multiple callings that, IF we were to keep time (which we don't) would easily double what most people would consider acceptable religious duty. We teach in classrooms (ages 18 months through adult, children, teens, men, women, Elders, High Priests) divided by many different classifications and each requiring a fully-prepared teacher. Every Ward has about 20 people called to teach, some teaching EVERY day, a calling I have thankfully never been asked to accept.

We have people called to lead the young people in scouting, in activities, in various youth programs that keep our young people active and involved, and help keep them away from the harmful things of the world. We have people who do social service duties, helping those in financial, emtional, legal, or spiritual distress. We have those called to minister specifically to those in prison. Others called to help those physically in need. The list goes on and on. We consider it our responsibility to help in every possible way anyone in need, whether in our own congregation, or our neighborhood, or our community, etc.

Most of us do in-home visiting and teaching of several families on a regular basis, and as part of that, are "on-call" for any needs those families may have, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from help shoveling snow or providing rides to doctor visits, to taking care of their children, pets, farm animals, etc., when they need to be out of town (let me tell you, THAT is one huge responsibility). We truly believe in being our brother's keeper. And we don't just give that lip service or empty platitudes. Love is an action word, for us.

Door to door work is important, but not more important than helping those who are already members, or others who are not members, and may never be, but are in need of our help. Door to door work is one facet of Christian service. You ask why we don't all do it, as JWs do. I wonder why your religion puts so little emphasis on blessing the lives of others through ongoing, genuine, meaningful acts of service and through other callings that provide opportunities for service.

I have often heard JW family members bemoan their problems with finding assistance with some problem they are having, such as not being able to find someone to provide transportation when their car breaks down, not even having anyone they can phone to come pick them up from the garage, and I wonder why not? Why isn't there someone there for them? What good does it do to do X number of door-to-door hours and then be unavailable when someone in your own congregation has a need? That makes no sense to me, and it never will.

Showing "love" to strangers is great, but is hollow at best if "love" isn't shown in more practical ways to members of your own congregation family, and your own neighbors and family members, whether members of your congregation or not.

You also asked, "To what degree is it acurate (Mormon doctrine) ... that God makes his home out on some planet in the univers...has wives...produces children...spiritual persons...sent earthward." And also, "Is God a spirit person or a physical person."

Yes, God has a home. Exactly where it would be if you went out and pointed at the night sky, none can say. Does it matter? Yes, he has a wife, whom he adores and cherishes in the same way he expects us to adore and cherish our own spouses, only far, far better since everything he does is far, far better than we can do. Notice I said "a wife". They have children, who of course are spirit beings, with spirit bodies that look much as ours do. The spirit part of us never ceases to be. He is spirit, encased in resurrected, glorified form. We are spirit, encased in mortal form. Mortal is temporary.

Does that cover it?

Susan

60

The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i saw a report on tv about the church of jesus chrisht of latter day saint and they have a lot in common with the jw.

they go from door to door and as the jw, they believe that they are here to save the world.

do you think that this church will become more popular while the watchtower is losing his popularity?

SusanHere

Hi, MoeJoJoJo,

I enjoyed reading of your experience with neighbors who blindsided you with the invitation to watch the video. Personally, I don't consider that tactic to be very nice, and hate it when someone does that to me, so wouldn't ever use it. Yes, the visit was probably enlightening for them as well as for you. You sound like you handled it very well.

Susan