Posts by SusanHere

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

SusanHere

Hey, Terry!

Guess what? This applies to me and my six children, too.

You said: There is nothing like actually rearing your own child to dispel all the notions one has about what works best. I've had a go at it seven times

I've had a go at it six times. We lost the seventh in midpregnancy following an accident.

You said: None of my kids ever had a drug problem or wore a tatoo or had a child out of wedlock or had an abortion.

None of mine did either.

You said: They went out and wanted a job and their own place when they were eighteen without being "urged".

All of mine did, too.

You said: They stay in touch and never borrow money.

Mine all stay in touch, visit often, and never borrow money except in a true emergency after which it is quickly repaid in full. They know they can come to us, or to one another in an emergency. We believe that's what being a family is all about -- being there for each other in good times and bad..

You said: None is religious.

Mine are ALL religious, for which I am very, very thankful. They are raising all of my grandchildren to be religious, for which I also give thanks.

You said: They each have children of their own.

Mine, too, except the ones just recently married.

You said: They never got arrested or went to jail or had a fight in public.

Neither did any of mine.

You said: None every disrespected me or used bad language in my presence.

I don't believe any parent can truthfully make that claim. Small children have tantrums and yell at their parents. All children try out bad words now and then for shock value and to see what will happen. Teenagers need to be disrespectful at times. It's part of maturing and separating from the role of child. The key is to help them through the rough stages, not deny it's even happening.

You said: I can't take all the credit, mind you; they are simply terrific people!

Guess what? So are mine!

You said: But, I didn't indoctrinate them.

I took mine to church before they were even born, after they were born, and until they left home. Funny, they never felt "indoctrinated". They liked everything about our church. They still do.

You said: I pointed out the difference between believing and knowing early on.

Yep, me too.

You said: They marvelled that their peers were delusional about things like Santa when the proof was so silly!

My children enjoyed believing in Santa and other fun parts of childhood fantasy when they were young. When they were ready, they freely gave it up. They had no difficulty understanding the difference between Santa, the Easter Bunny, and other childhood fantasy characters and actual religious facts. It wasn't and isn't confusing to them.

You said: They very quickly picked up on the fact that it takes social collusion to sell myths and make them "real".

Yes, my older children understood this concept. They loved to carry the childhood myths on with the younger children, and now with their own children. Healthy imaginations and belief in good imaginary characters are of benefit to a child. But they and their children know their religion is not a myth.

You said: They aren't jaded or cynical, but; they are skeptics who like to have some legitimacy conferred on what they hold to be workable opinions.

Yep, my children also learned how to know when something is real and when it isn't.

You said: I think I did okay.

I'm glad to hear that. I did really well, too. I guess we can both be proud of our parenting skills!

Oh, and of my six children, all six either have at least Bachelor's degrees or are currently in college and at least halfway towards their Bachelors. Two are full time military. Two are full time law enforcement. One has a computer science degree and is working his field. One is wisely using her degree to help her be a better mom to her own children. None obtained his or her Bachelor's from one of our church's colleges or universities. They all do very well in the real world and are well-rounded people with wide and varied interests both within and outside of the church community. They have wide social circles because of their open, friendly, fun-loving dispositions.

When we all get together, we have a blast!

Yep, I think my hubby and I did pretty well! I'm glad to hear you did, too. Our children would probably be good friends. Maybe they already are.

SusanHere

31

I just gave 2 Mormon Elders Hell!

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

oh man, 2 mormons were walking on my road as i was driving home from work, i stopped them, asked them firstly why in the world they were walking on a dirt road in their suits where the houses are hundreds of yards apart, and then to come back to my house.

wow, it was so interesting to see the hundreds of mormon articles i've been reading in prep for talking to the jw (who had to cancel on me to go on a trip, plus i'm kinda wary about talking to her now, as i know this will sound silly, but her mom and fam stopped by the coffee shop, and i know my boss the owner cannot afford the loss of customers...who knows how many of them are witlesses!

anyways, one was from utah, one from texas....the parroting and the language that was so present in those articles was dumbly flung at me willy nilly in adverse to my arguments.

SusanHere

ALL Christian churches (and many other churches, too) tend to have similar writings.

Things like:

using faith to help people through life,

seeking good things while avoiding the bad,

using good judgement and discernment,

being kind to others,

having strong and loving families,

parents teaching their children good values so they can have good lives...

little things like that.

For me and my family, those things have high value. This is America. Everyone can freely choose how much value they place on religion for themselves and their families, and also which one they want to follow, if any.

They can even choose to make ignorant and insensitive remarks about other people's religions. I don't recommend doing so but in this country people have that right.

SusanHere

31

I just gave 2 Mormon Elders Hell!

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

oh man, 2 mormons were walking on my road as i was driving home from work, i stopped them, asked them firstly why in the world they were walking on a dirt road in their suits where the houses are hundreds of yards apart, and then to come back to my house.

wow, it was so interesting to see the hundreds of mormon articles i've been reading in prep for talking to the jw (who had to cancel on me to go on a trip, plus i'm kinda wary about talking to her now, as i know this will sound silly, but her mom and fam stopped by the coffee shop, and i know my boss the owner cannot afford the loss of customers...who knows how many of them are witlesses!

anyways, one was from utah, one from texas....the parroting and the language that was so present in those articles was dumbly flung at me willy nilly in adverse to my arguments.

SusanHere

Wow, JWdaughter -- thank you for your comments. You put into words what I usually can't do nearly so well.

SusanHere

31

I just gave 2 Mormon Elders Hell!

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

oh man, 2 mormons were walking on my road as i was driving home from work, i stopped them, asked them firstly why in the world they were walking on a dirt road in their suits where the houses are hundreds of yards apart, and then to come back to my house.

wow, it was so interesting to see the hundreds of mormon articles i've been reading in prep for talking to the jw (who had to cancel on me to go on a trip, plus i'm kinda wary about talking to her now, as i know this will sound silly, but her mom and fam stopped by the coffee shop, and i know my boss the owner cannot afford the loss of customers...who knows how many of them are witlesses!

anyways, one was from utah, one from texas....the parroting and the language that was so present in those articles was dumbly flung at me willy nilly in adverse to my arguments.

SusanHere

What "creepy religious exercises" are LDS parents "commanded to have with their children"? What on earth are you talking about? There is no such thing in the Mormon religion.

Your quotes included this one:

President Gordon B. Hinckley (on the Miracle of Faith):

As it was then, so it is today. This precious and marvelous gift of faith, this gift from God our Eternal Father, is still the strength of this work and the quiet vibrancy of its message. Faith underlies it all. Faith is the substance of it all. Whether it be going into the mission field, living the Word of Wisdom, paying one’s tithing, it is all the same. It is the faith within us that is evidenced in all we do.

Our critics cannot understand it. Because they do not understand, they attack. A quiet inquiry, an anxious desire to grasp the principle behind the result, could bring greater understanding and appreciation.

I was asked at a news conference on one occasion how we get men to leave their vocations, to leave home, and serve the Church.

I responded that we simply ask them, and we know what their answer will be.

What a marvelous and wonderful thing it is, this powerful conviction that says the Church is true. It is God’s holy work. He overrules in the things of His kingdom and in the lives of His sons and daughters. This is the reason for the growth of the Church. The strength of this cause and kingdom is not found in its temporal assets, impressive as they may be. It is found in the hearts of its people. That is why it is successful. That is why it is strong and growing. That is why it is able to accomplish the wonderful things that it does. It all comes of the gift of faith, bestowed by the Almighty upon His children who doubt not and fear not, but go forward.

Can you tell me in what way you find this to be offensive? Actually, you, by your own actions and words, are verifying exactly what he said:

"Our critics cannot understand it. Because they do not understand, they attack." Isn't this exactly what you are choosing to do?

Perhaps it would be better if you would stop and consider the next line of his quote:

"A quiet inquiry, an anxious desire to grasp the principle behind the result, could bring greater understanding and appreciation."

Is that an offensive line to you, too? Or are you able to recognize how powerful a concept this simple statement is in a time when so many people only seem interested in adding to the havoc already so aboundant in the world.

You have obviously been very busy with research. Unfortunately, you violated the first rule of valid research. You had a preconceived bias that colored all your findings and your conclusions. As you yourself said, you researched all this to "prove" that Mormons are a cult. No matter what you found, you read it through that bias.

My quoting your quotes as I did is a prime example of that. Nowhere in the words of that kind and gentle man was ANYTHING that any normal person would take offense to, and yet you did.

I don't know you. I don't know your story. But I do know that you must be a very sad person to invest so much time in a project such as this one for the purpose you stated. Guess what? Anybody can do the same thing with any religion. Quotes out of context, with your own interpretations interspersed liberally throughout in order to lead the reader's mind to the conclusion you want them to reach. You must be a very sad and bitter person.

I'm sorry you can't get past whatever has caused you to be so bitter towards 12 million people you have never even met. Surely there must be a better way to accomplish your goals that this.

SusanHere

49

Christmas Is Not Pagan!

by Sarah Smiles in

someone wrote about christmas and i could not find your post to reply!

so here is my reply why i think christmas is not pagan!.

i just read a thread where one of the posters was saying christmas is not pagan.

SusanHere

Why is Christmas such a bad thing when all the pagan traditions it supposedly came from happened forever ago? Has anybody met any druids lately?

Meanwhile, JWs do attend the many luaus in Hawaii when they go over there. They even attend the Polynesian Cultural Center's most excellent night show, where all the dances from the various polynesian islands are performed in as true to original form as is possible.

Don't JWs realize that the Hawaiian dances are based on pagan worship of Pele and verious other gods and goddesses? Further, don't JWs realize that on Hawaiian and other polynesian islands today -- this very day -- there are people who are worshipping in the old ways, making those dances and rituals very current, not merely ancient traditions?

So why is it okay for JWs to pay good money to go eating, drinking, and partying surrounded by modern-day paganism and yet they shun every aspect of Christmas because of supposed connections a thousand or more years old?

How can that make sense?

For me and my family, we attend the authentic luaus, and the PCC night show, every time we are blessed to be over on the islands. We also celebrate Christmas with all the trimmings. I'm very grateful to live in a time when nobody can restrict our access to these things based on their own narrow interpretations of some doctrinal code.

If you choose to see evil, you can find it anywhere. If you choose to see beauty, it's everywhere, too, though often far less obvious. I believe we are meant to look for the good, and enjoy it where ever it can be found.

SusanHere

16

Can anyone confirm this?????

by Tatiana in

jw
friends

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/29/223954/887.

mormhovaologists back romneyby tbrucegodfreysat sep 29, 2007 at 08:28:23 pm pdtin a stunning move, the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, the watch tower bible and tract society of the jehovah's witnesses and the sea organization of the church of scientology have pooled their human, financial and field organizations into a new political action committee to get mitt romney elected president.. tbrucegodfrey's diary :: :: ap (clearwater, fl) - "today, we look forward to a new era for our church," announced church of scientology spokesperson catherine wilkens.

"through out strategic partnership with the watchtower and with our new partners in salt lake city, we are fully confident that we can get a man who truly reflects our forward-looking values and ambitions for a truly world-wide outreach to clear our planet of its ills.

SusanHere

Very clever fake. Too many errors to be legit -- such as quoting a deceased person, James E. Faust,

Mormons, unlike JWs, never refer to anyone by their first name if Brother or Sister is used, such as "Brother Mitt". Wouldn't happen. It would be "Brother Romney" or simply "Mitt". Even if addressing or referring to a child, it follows that pattern. "Sister Nancy" would never be said. "Sister Nelson" would be.

Also, the LDS Church has always refused to back political candidates, no matter who they are. They simply advise everyone to study the issues and the candidates and then vote as they see best. They aren't likely to change that this time, no matter who the candidates are.

Lots of little errors like that add up, but the article was fun to read, even if not researched well enough to fool anyone for long.

SusanHere

11

Mormon's putting out a calendar featuring hunky male missionarys...

by Gregor in

nude from the waist up.

very gay.

money going to charity (guess who) why no cheesecake calendar of some young mormon babes?.

SusanHere

Yep. EX-Mormons if even that. A lot of so-called EX-Mormons never were Mormon at all. They just love the attention they get from using the name.

And of course most people are so ignorant of Mormon beliefs and lifestyle that the so-called ex-Mormons can say anything they want and get believed... especially if it's really lurid, filthy, and totally out of touch with any form of reality.

Susan

27

What Were the "Geneologies" Of Which Paul Was Warning In 1 Tim. 1:17?

by Justitia Themis in

interesting...from the jaimeson, fausset and brown bible commentary:.

genealogies--not merely such civil genealogies as were common among the jews, whereby they traced their descent from the patriarchs, to which paul would not object, and which he would not as here class with "fables," but gnostic genealogies of spirits and aeons, as they called them, "lists of gnostic emanations" [alford].

so tertullian [against valentinian, c. 3], and irenaeus [preface].

SusanHere

Perhaps by continuing to harp on the "vain geneologies" theme, the WTS is trying to keep JWs away from the modern day geneological societies and geneological libraries that are found almost everywhere and which are often sponsored by the LDS Church or other religious entities.

It could also be that they don't want JWs contacting long-lost relatives who might lure them away, or to "waste" time researching geneology instead of merely reading WT approved literature.

Other than those imagined, WTS-perceived threats to the wellbeing of the average JW, how can doing geneology possibly harm anyone? It is a growing interest of benefit to all, usually free of charge, as more and more people desire a connection to their heritage.

Susan

41

You won't believe this: a KH turned into a church!!!

by observador in

about two years ago i posted here some pictures of a kingdom hall for sale.

that was quite something to me; had never seen something like it; never thought i would.

always thought that a progressive, ever increasing true religion would be always building and expanding, not selling.. but what wasn't my surprise when i passed by the other day and the damn hall had been sold; worse, the old, glorious hall had become a, gasp... a church!!.

SusanHere

A Kingdom Hall in Manhattan (NY, USA) was sold to the Latter-day Saints. There were pictures and a write-up on it in the paper. They didn't say how much money had to change hands.

22

How can I learn to more assertive?

by Apostate Kate2 in

jw
friends

i think this is left over from dubdays, dunno.

when i need to be assertive i fizzle out.

my husband was furious when he came home.

SusanHere

Apostate Kate said:

You know people can be scarey! I think I just analyzed myself. This is the real root of it all. I have had some very bad and traumatic things happen to me when someone was violent and out of control. Dont wanna make people angry or bad things can happen....hhhmmmm

I think you are exactly spot on with this self-analysis. I, too, had many bad and traumatic incidents as a young child with a violent and out of control parent. I grew up with the mantra of "Don't make Daddy mad" being heard nearly daily. I grew up afraid of violence coming out of nowhere, from nothing, at any time.

Though long past those fears, and able to be very confident and assertive within my own sphere of influence, the fear is always there that strangers might become violent. It is difficult to be assertive with them, so I always play nice, keep things mellow, and often get taken advantage of. When that happens, my wonderful hubby steps in.

I have learned to very, very sweetly ask hired people, salespeople, etc., if they didn't "forget" to do something they were hired to do, or if I "misunderstood" what we had agreed on, and then ask, "So when are you going to do that part?" and I finish with "And I pay you the rest when it's all done, right?"

This can be done non-confrontationally. It's important to me to leave all contacts on a positive note, with praise for the good job they did, even if I'm inwardly seething at how much effort it took to get the work done. It's important to me to have even casual contact people remember me as being a nice person, a quality person.

I think you are much the same in what you are dealing with. Yes, it's all tied back to your early history, but you can improve on it. And with every positive encounter, you feel more confident for the next one.

Oh, and someone once told me to write my signature five times a day, underlining each one as soon as it is written. I underlined each one twice. This tells your subconscience (sp?) mind that you are a person of worth, and your wants matter as much as anyone elses. It sounds really silly, but it did help me.

Good luck and God bless.

SusanHere