Child Sacrifice and Exodus 22:29

by joey jojo in

im not a bible scholar - lets just get that out the way first.

i recently came across exodus 22:29, which is an interesting scripture that seems to require israelites to sacrifice their firstborn to god.. i searched this forum and cant seem to find any topic about it so i thought id start one and see what you guys think.

im sure it probably has been discussed here already, but i cant find it.. anyway, exodus 22:29 says:.

liam

joey jojo

there are a lot of apologists, including JW's that are doing their white knight duty to defend this verse.

Bart Ehrman has said that the majority of bible scholars will not step into a controversy where a bible verse plainly contradicts the current ideology that God is Omni-Benevolent.

So usually they use the phrase, “This verse has an obscure meaning”

But many Bible Scholars say the best way to understand a verse like this is to take a good honest look at the personality of Jehovah/ aka/ YHWH. And see if the bible verse in question is telling us the complete opposite of what modern Christians believe God is.

From the very Beginning, we learn that the God of the bible has a very warped view of all Human and animal life. He gets some type of arousal seeing the shedding of innocent Human and animal life.

For example in the very first bible book notice how he reacts to Noah sacrificing innocent animals right after the flood. Different bible translations use different colorful words but they convey the same meaning. He gets some type of arousal to the smell of BLOOD.

Genesis 8:20-22

And Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every [ceremonially] clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma [a soothing, satisfying scent]

BRG

And the Lord smelled a sweet savour;

DARBY

And Jehovah smelled the sweet odour

In Exodus 22:29 CJB bible translation, notice that YHWH says “The firstborn of your sons you are to give to me. But after that He says;

You are to do the same with your oxen and your sheep — it is to stay with its mother seven days, and on the eighth day you are to give it to me.

The verse seems to indicate that as soon as parents have their first born, they can keep it for seven days, after which on the eighth day they hand the baby over to him, just like the oxen and sheep, which were sacrificed as a burnt offering. Certainly the baby was not given to the priests for them to raise up a bunch of babies.

In the story of Jephthah offering his daughter as a burnt sacrifice it tells us;

Judges 11:31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.’

In the bible a Burnt offering is a sacrifice Burnt offering. The bible says nothing about the daughter vowing to remain single and live with the priests.

Then there’s the thousands of innocent animals that were slaughter for Jehovah pleasure.

1 Kings 8:62-63 Then the king, and all Israel with him, offered sacrifice before the Lord. Solomon offered as peace offerings to the Lord 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep.

Think about that for a minute and imagine the effect slaughtering 142,000 thousand innocent animals had on the minds of those doing the slaughtering. And also all the people watching the slaughtering for the pleasure of the God they worship.

Today slaughtering a few cows in a slaughter house causes many men and women to have mental breakdowns.

This is a 5 minute video of slaughtering a few cows. The first time I saw it, it messed me up for a long time.

SO THIS IS WARNING TO NOT SEE IT IF SLAUGHTERING ANIMALS AFFECTS YOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KezHKbUzy0A

And last but not least, even Jesus recognized that his father had this thing for spilled blood. Sacrifices and offering were not his thing. Jehovah wanted innocent blood spilled to smell the sweet odor. So he made sure not to step in when they were beating his son to a pulp and crucifying or impaling him.

Jehovah could have easily and painlessly taken the life of Jesus like Thanos took the life of half the Universe, without any pain, and the Ransom would have been paid, regardless. There was no need for Jesus to suffer the way he did, Unless this God is malevolent and just loves to see humans and animals suffer.

Hebrews 10:5 EHV

Therefore when he entered the world, Christ said: Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but you prepared a body for me.

So how we want to read that verse in Exodus will depend on you.

26

Will there ever be any new GB members?

by Mikejw in

the last two seem very young.. will there be any further new gb members or will they all die off?.

i still remember when tony morris and a few other joined many were disappointed thinking the current crop would be the last.

.

liam

Whether New or Old, it's the Governing Body, the way to salvation.

https://www.tiktok.com/@jahisforeverking/video/7400398595016494342

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

liam

titch

Oh well, that's all part of god's Master Plan for animals, right?

Just imagine how F***** we are if there is such a God that Created the animal life that we see today. Life for these poor animals was created in such a way that a baby deer doesn’t even get an opportunity to live a Full life to enjoy the wonders that being alive can bring. The last thoughts of the baby deer can be seen in its eyes as it is being swallowed alive. What a horrific way to go for both animal or human.

I believe that any average honest, compassionate “Human” if he became omniscient, and omnipotent, and decided to create animal life on this planet, would make sure animals could find their nutrition in a way that didn't require some other animals to be torn apart to pieces or eaten alive like this baby deer.

The fact that this is a reality, shows that either, there is no God, and life on earth for both animals and humans, was random. And no major plan was in place by a Powerful Benevolent God. In fact most Scientists classify humans as an animal, but who developed a higher form of self-awareness.

Or there is a God and he is Malevolent!

115

Vice President Kamala Harris…your thoughts??

by minimus in

jw
friends

good pick?

bad pick?

helpful to president biden?

liam

Jw GoneBad Kamala Harris is hardly breaking a sweat...no interviews, no press conferences, not saying much about her policies and yet is pulling away in the race for the White House...showing her ahead in the polls in many critical swing states...now that is weird!

There’s one of two things happening here. One, the party is really stupid to have her run for President or two; They already have the election Won and don’t have to even try.

As far as Trump is concerned, They’ve already taken care of that. The assassination didn’t work so now the Judge overseeing his case is planning to sentence Trump to prison right before the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFXwuP647A

Some are saying that women voters are really behind Harris' election

Only women from the Democratic party, not conservative women.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IOt8r8WS2Ok

What I believe (With No Proof Whatsoever,just a hunch) is that the Democrat party already has the election won.

A few days ago they exposed some of Harris’s Rallies where thousands were in attendance as an AI created image. So the big crowds are not real. But who cares, the election is already won.

18

The boy who has cried wolf - for nearly 140 years!

by BoogerMan in

"when will this hope be fulfilled?

the bible foretold events that would signal that god’s kingdom is about to begin its rule over the earth.

present world conditions match what the bible foretold.

liam

After 140 years and numerous false dates, they still believe Armageddon is immanent.

They have no shame saying things like:

Actually it’s Brilliant……….for a Scammer

The Shame lies with the members who continue to “Believe” despite all the Hard Evidence that is laying on the table for them to examine. Being able to scam millions of people for 140 years has allowed them to Build a Multi-Billion Dollar Religious Empire based on failed promises.

You can’t blame a group of humans, who nature is to exploit other humans for power and control. As long as there are people who are willing to be mislead, groups like the Watchtower will continue to exist. Not just in religious fields, but political as well.

That’s why in 2018, the Nigerian Prince con brought in more than $700,000 from Americans alone. For decades, this digital hustler has been seeping through spam filters to offer you a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity: Dear beloved, he writes,

I’m a wayward royal coming to you with an incredible investment opportunity. Mr. Sir, did you know you have millions of dollars unclaimed in a Western Union account? I can help you get it out.

All he needs is a small cash advance or a bank account number to complete the wire transfer. Then, these unexpected riches are yours.

And it keeps working. It never ends and it never fails, because people in general are always looking for an easy way out of a harsh world. Whether it be millions in cash or Everlasting Life.

43

Is 1st Century advice on marriage still relevant in today’s modern world?

by liam in

republicans want to make a law that forbids ‘uncontested divorce”.

they based this on this scripture.. matthew 19. is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”.

4 “haven’t you read,” jesus replied, “that at the beginning the creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

liam

peacefulpete

Actually, Democrats do not have a set of beliefs, that's what being a Democrat (supporter of democracy) means, allowing a diversity of beliefs. This about the only belief all democrats share.

Actually No,

Democrats Do Have a set of beliefs, in their campaign, they discuss their beliefs in the debates with Republicans. And just so you know, Republicans are supporters of democracy also.

But what I think you are misunderstanding is that the United States is not a true Democracy. Only the Greeks had something “Close” to a true democracy, but not really.

We have a Representative Democracy. That means you elect someone to represent you and what you believe is good for you and your family.

It also means YOU don’t get to choose any decisions that might affect your family or even You for the worse. For example, if you live in the USA and the representatives you choose, decide to declare war, they can institute a law that says all men and women, from ages 18 to 70 years of age, have to go fight.

You as an individual in this kind of Democracy have no say whatsoever. Your representatives do.

But there’s more. Say you and your family and the majority of Americans enjoy “Certain Rights” and you want to continue to enjoy these rights that you and your family have enjoyed for years. The day finally arrives, and it time to vote for the representatives that will protect those rights that you and your family enjoy.

Lets say Tom is the representative that promises to protect your rights, and Karen promises to take away those rights you and the majority of American enjoy.

The election starts off and Tom wins the popular vote. YES, the people have spoken, the majority of Americans have voted for Tom and he wins, so you get to keep your “Rights,”, …….RIGHT--------WRONG!

Karen wins the “Electoral Collage, and what that means is Tom cannot represent you even though the majority of American voted for Tom.

Karen won the Electoral College and her first order in office is to take away your rights that you’ve enjoyed for years. And on top of that, she starts a war and drafts all you kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiPL-XHKnCk

Here is an interview from Bill Maher, a full blooded Democrat from the day he became a teenager. He hates Trump and has been in legal battles with him for a long time. Listen to what he now thinks of the Democrat Party/Woke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh-57IbGUnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysKhJ1U-vM

Here is a small sample of ONE of the Democrat beliefs of the one running for President and Her Vice President, and they are making it very clear what their beliefs are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmdAXLDmDts

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

liam

Balaamsass2

but could call home...or transfer some cash...if he wanted.

Yea but at least he would call, maybe once in a long while but at least he would let you know he existed

And at least he would send some cash, ......that's something.

But God doesn't call, and he doesn't answer prayers when you really need some help.

So either God doesn't exist anymore, perhaps he died a long time ago and wasn't immortal.

Or he doesn't give a F*** about human or animal life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYLml04B5iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YnpQ1f8Qo8

43

Is 1st Century advice on marriage still relevant in today’s modern world?

by liam in

republicans want to make a law that forbids ‘uncontested divorce”.

they based this on this scripture.. matthew 19. is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”.

4 “haven’t you read,” jesus replied, “that at the beginning the creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

liam

Balaamsass2

It also allows for multiple wives....for non-servants. Ministerial servants should be husbands of one wife. 1 Timothy 3:12 in the Bible states, "Let each deacon be the husband of one wife,

Well I'll be! I think you are right!

If every Christian was required to have ONE wife, the writer would have plainly said,

"Let ALL Christians be the husband of One Wife".........But he didn't!

That's probably why in the Catholic Church, Priests are forbidden to marry. They interpreted the verse correctly.

Let's apply that today to the Watchtower;

Let All elders and Ministerial Servants be the husband of One Wife.

But All publishers can have as many wives as they wish, This is the Lord's Commandment

How many would want to reach out for elder and MS?

43

Is 1st Century advice on marriage still relevant in today’s modern world?

by liam in

republicans want to make a law that forbids ‘uncontested divorce”.

they based this on this scripture.. matthew 19. is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”.

4 “haven’t you read,” jesus replied, “that at the beginning the creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

liam

LauraLynn

Forcing people to obey moral laws they do not believe obtains a sort of conformity in society,

….. It's a legalistic attempt to conform a person's behavior.

And here in lies the problem with the Entire United States of America.

The Republicans have a set of beliefs based on their interpretation of the Bible and they believe they they should try to somehow force everyone in the USA to conform to their beliefs.

The Democrats have their set of beliefs, these days it’s going Woke and a zillion genders and the idea that Democratic party should rule the USA for infinity, and anything and everything should be done to make that happen.

And now we have another problem. The Open Border has allowed Millions, some say as many as 40 million have entered the border illegally, but the Democrats have said no more than 6 million.

The problem is, all these people that have entered the Country illegally and are given citizenship legally, will bring their Own Culture and Beliefs. And some of these people believe in extreme interpretations of Sharia Law which will be forced on any woman and man living in their State where they make their home. This will be a bad thing for women living in their territory. If you think Watchtower disfellowshipping was bad, wait till we start hearing of women being beheaded because they committed adultery in their heart.

Sooner or later the USA is going to fragment like Africa, with different sects, factions and political tribes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffPDgXqEcEI

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

liam

Job suffered severely

Wow, This brings back memories!

This was the story that got my parents to stop pushing me to get baptized. They couldn’t explain to me Why?

The story of Job shows unequivocally, not only how the person who wrote this story had some of the lowest moral principles, but the entire culture of the time couldn’t distinguish the absurdity of a Father allowing a relative, a friend, or a stranger, to inflict pain and death to his own children.

Imagine if something like that happened in today’s modern world. Imagine if someone approaches a Father, and that someone asks the father of a son, and grandfather of many children, that if he allows him to inflict punishment on his son, and grandchildren, he can prove that his son only loves him because of what they can get out of him.

Now imagine the Father says yes, and the stranger throws acid on the son, kills all his children, and strips him of his livelihood.

Once the neighbors find out, without a doubt they will call the police and arrest the stranger and the Father, and throw them both in prison or give them the death penalty, for allowing such atrocity to be inflicted by this stranger to win a bet.

How about this other scenario, A stranger or a relative, approaches a Father who is a powerful king with many children who rules a huge empire and tells him that he wants to prove that his children don’t love him. And he can prove it by killing some, and torturing others.

How long do you think it will take before the King executes this man? Probably minutes.

Last scenario. Someone approaches you and tells you that your children don’t love you, and I can prove it if you allow me to kill some of your children and torture others.

What would you do?

This story of Job shows how low the moral standards of people living back then were. They were literally sick in the mind. This is why it was no big deal hearing the story of Lot handing off his daughters to a crowd to be raped, or the man who handed out his concubine to a crowd of perverts to rape her to death and then butcher her into twelve pieces and send the pieces to the twelve tribes of Israel. This is in the last three chapters of Judges.

This is one of the main reasons why the women of Gen Z hate the bible. The way women were treated in the OT is absurd and plain evil. And as more Generations are born every year, more people are rejecting the bible as the inspired word of God and concluding that it’s just a collections of stories written by ignorant men who were just reflecting the mores of their time.

At the rate information is being spread throughout the earth via the internet, and more people have access to the bible, I’d say in 100 year the bible will become irrelevant world wide.

All a person has to do is read the Bible a few times, and it becomes obvious that its a creation of ignorant men of the past.

liam

Posts by liam

1 Kings 8:62-63 Then the king, and all Israel with him, offered sacrifice before the Lord. Solomon offered as peace offerings to the Lord 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep.