Posts by Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

I thought this letter was interesting because it shows how little has changed. The letter even sounds like the same style the service department still uses today. And it's from 1922, not so long before the 1935 change. Back then they thought that the last call for memorial drinks was 1881.

Some other oddities in the JW history books is that they once thought the 144,000 did not have Christ as the mediator, because they were part of the "Christ", and were mediating for the great crowd, who were also going to heaven according to Russell. It's not surprising that they still aren't clear on explaining the mediator doctrine.

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

126

New Light on the United Nations (U.N.) (Scarlet Beast)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

there appears to be "new light" in the latest watchtower magazine (june 1st 2003 issue).

several watchtower publications for the last 50+ years have said that the united nations (u.n.) organization ("the scarlet-colored wild beast" of revelation) would definitely be the organization that will carry out jehovah's judgment on "babylon the great" (false religion), and then, under satan's [gog of magog's] direction, the united nations organization would become "greedy", and try to attack the remaining remnant of the "anointed" jehovah's witnesses and their companions, the "great crowd" of "other sheep", and then jehovah and jesus would destroy the united nations organization, along with everyone else who was not a jehovah's witness.

here is a quote that shows this: .

Gamaliel

Francois,

Good catch on the "greedy eye". I agree that it is a paranoia-induced fear that someone is after their prime real estate. Remember Ciro's speculation in his infamous post-9/11 talk:

And then you have the minister of finance. Ooooh, look at him. "Oooh, if we confiscate all their possessions it could help us to meet our financial budget. That would be good for the country.
We should stamp them out, you see." And that's all possibilities, my friends.
And Satan can use the political powers to attack and carry out his injurious scheme.

What's the point? Brothers, we should expect them to despoil us of our human rights.
We should expect them to confiscate all of Jehovah's belongings and close down and take possession of all our branches, factories, depots, kingdom halls, assembly halls, everything. Don't make any mistake about it. We are all in this together. We have a common enemy.

I dare say he sounded worried that he might himself become homeless. (I'm sure he got himself all worked up and nervous about getting kicked out of his home after the UN/NGO fiasco.) At least Ciro sounds a little (but only a little) less like the scared sycophant he was 25 years ago.

Gamaliel

32

Do humans have free will?

by Realist in

jw
friends

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hello everyone,.

i would like to know who of you thinks that humans have a free will and who thinks humans do rather work like a very complex computer.. in my opinion free will is an illusion generated by our brain....what do you think?.

Gamaliel

I think the best treatise on Free Will I ever read was "What is Man?" by Mark Twain. He turns philosophy into a conversation, a lot like Socratic dialogue, but his wit lets him drive home much more difficult points than the one that Plato attempted.

PS: I'm sure it's all over the Net but the first link I found was: http://www.underthesun.cc/Classics/Twain/whatisman/

Gamaliel

46

I think I am even being shunned here.

by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

jw
friends

i came to this site via freeminds.com and am really quite surprised to learn that this site is maintained by active jw's (am i correct?

- i'm a slow learner).

i get the feeling i maybe getting the shun treatment, which is okay, for i understand that for the mindset from which it originates.

Gamaliel

Honk if you love CHEESES!

HONK!!

32

Do humans have free will?

by Realist in

jw
friends

.

hello everyone,.

i would like to know who of you thinks that humans have a free will and who thinks humans do rather work like a very complex computer.. in my opinion free will is an illusion generated by our brain....what do you think?.

Gamaliel

I decided I wouldn't answer this email until I flipped a coin. If it was heads I would answer it. If it was tails I wouldn't. It was tails, but I decided to answer it anyway. So, I can't tell yet if I have free will.

Gamaliel

26

Post your favorite JW "DEMON" story

by MoeJoJoJo in

jw
friends

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we've all heard different stories floating around our congregations of different ones(bible studies, or brothers or sisters) having an encounter or 'problems' with demons.

what was your favorite?.

Gamaliel

There was a guy in Rolla, Missouri, the literature "servant"/territory "servant" who seemed to have dozens of demon stories to tell the young kids (especially) after the Thursday night TMS/SMtg.(J.Matth ews) He and his wife were young, very average JWs, and I wouldn't have thought to question his truthfulness at 9 years old, but my father, then the congregation servant (=PO) once pulled me aside and said not to pay any attention, they were just stupid ghost stories, and that he didn't believe them and that "they" were going to ask Bro.Matthews to stop telling them. The 10-13 year old girls seemed completely mesmerized by his stories, and loved to retell them as proof of their own unbelievable stories. This brother never lost his position in the congregation, exactly, but I do remember it was a kind of a shock to re-evaluate whether a servant could be deliberately untruthful.

We had a lot of haunted house stories in Missouri. I was a complete non-believer in ghosts and would gladly walk through dozens of these supposed "haunts." So I was surprised when one of my studies started having demon experiences. It was just a "normal" young couple who finally got baptized but complained often of the sounds of dishes being thrown around the house in the early months of the studies. Shortly after baptism, the new sister announced to my wife that she had had a dream and that she was going to soon have her husband (me). Another single sister, my wife's age, at a party, in a corner with just an elder and my wife and I, picked up a Black Sabbath record, and started going into a rant about how this group was demonized and how my wife must know all about these demons, and she started in on all these extremely vile accusations about relationships with demons. She actually began to look "demonized" although I would now classify it as "high". We laughed it off incredulously and I said I'd talk to her about her motives some other time. When I brought it up the next day with the elder who was sitting there silently, he said he didn't hear a thing! He just tuned out and thought we were talking about some rock group.

Since JWs I've never heard a demon/ghost story, but had already thought of them as somehow tied in with the "chemicals of puberty" and adolescent mental confusion, but in these last two cases of adults, there also seemed to be some other form of sexual frustration and possible "medication" I'm assuming. The latter sister claimed to be of the annointed, by the way, but wasn't counted even though she partook.

Gamaliel

23

Positions

by Phil in

does anyone know all the positions that are identified in the watchtower organization?

i hear people talking about elders, overseers etc.

what are all the positions from the to to the bottom?

Gamaliel

I laughed...I cried...I cried uncle.

That was hilarious, unclebruce.

68

Kingdom melodie haunting me

by Vivamus in

jw
friends

omg, how horrible is this:.

you know when you have a certain tune in your head, and you just can't figure out which one it is?

well, i just figured mine out, its "hey daar al gij dorstigen, komt en drink het levenswater vrij".

Gamaliel

That song (loyal love) is in both the purple and the newer brown book. I think if they took a poll of the top songs that we thought were "pretty" that one might top the list with most of us. It sticks with me and makes me sad, too. But maybe part of the reason is that it reminds us in some way that it wasn't all bad, there was some beauty there. There were plenty of truly ugly songs, too, but I think we miss the good parts. And we wish there weren't so many sick bas*ards in that religion that have ruined former friendships and relationships over a stupid little belief system.

Gamaliel

104

Liberals have lost the Iraq argument, so please stop whining...

by dolphman in

nothing you said was going to happen has actually happened.

the iraqis have welcomed us with open arms.

we have not decimated baghdad's infrastructure.

Gamaliel

Dolphman,

Anyone who wants to, can be "right" just by claiming the opposite of the person you disagree with. Then that person can be "right" just by claiming the opposite of what you said. There will always be plenty of proof for both sides because proof in these matters is created by looking only at what supports your view and denying anything that doesn't. You make it sound as if you merely wish to start that kind of meaningless argument, where there are only two sides; everything is simple. Everyone should just accept what they want and deny what they don't want. What a waste of time.

When people are really interested in truth, don't they show interest in discussing the possible meaning of the evidence that the other side posts, and then encourage others to discuss the possible meaning of evidence that you post? This is, after all, a discussion board. Unless, of course, that's not what you really want. Maybe I missed your point.

Gamaliel

PS. By the way, what does liberal mean? Someone who supports liberation? freedoms? Is that so unpatriotic or unamerican?