Gamaliel

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Posts by Gamaliel

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  41

  The New World Translation

  by MrsQ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone give me an explanation of how the nw translation came about?

  who, exactly, were on this bible translation committee, and what were their qualifications?

  when was it first published?.

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  Gamaliel

  scholar,

  It's true we may have oral testimony, but that doesn't mean Gangas was lying when he told anyone who asked that he was on the committee. Believe me, he was asked a lot. I heard him claim it several times. In fact, if you have any friends who were at Bethel when he was -- and you've named people you knew who were -- just ask them and I'm sure they'll know about Gangas. The thing with Gangas was that, since he spoke Greek, he was constantly getting the question about how close modern Greek was to koine Greek. He always answered that it was about 80% the same. Which often led to the question about whether he was on the committee.

  I gave a lot of tours, and when people asked if I could introduce them to someone on the GB, I could always count on Gangas to be very down-to-earth and friendly and he'd even join us for lunch, a few times. Because of this, I know that a lot of people outside of Bethel also know Gangas to have been on the NWT committee, too.

  Also if my own knowledge counts for anything, Bert Schroeder was definitely on it, too. All the others, no matter how sure I am are, for me, as you say, second hand claims. In fact, I was very surprised to hear of alf's mention Karl Klein, and had never heard of a possible Byington connection.

  Gamaliel
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  9

  Sounds like The Watchtower, doesn't it?

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.kxly.com/common/getstory.asp?id=30410

  the smoking gun?

  local survivors of catholic priest sexual abuse say its the smoking gun: a 40 page document, uncovered by news4 lays out in great detail exactly how the vatican instructed all of his diocese world wide to silence all claims of sexual abuse by priests.

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  Gamaliel

  Hamas,

  When I was still a JW I started college and took four years of Hebrew with nearly 100% Orthodox Jews as classmates. I was made aware of some of these abuse issues (mostly wife-beating issues) and was completely disgusted, thinking that these people should know better because of their respect for the Bible. An on-campus rabbi once gave a talk at the Jewish Student Union on child abuse problems in families, and I would read some of the Jewish college newspapers and read of "abuse" news and discussions. I got the impression that it was a real problem, and wondered why they couldn't be as good as JWs.

  Then the next year my own sister, a good JW started getting beaten up by her JW husband, and my own father, along with another elder convinced her not to make an issue of it so as not to bring reproach on the congregation. My sister tried that for a couple years more. Finally she broke free from the JWs even though by then I had already left for "apostate" and for a while she would have nearly spit in my direction if she saw me. I did know about a couple other JW cases, but assumed (back then) they were exceptions with JWs.

  I now know that most cultures, Muslim, Indian, Chinese, have issues, but I've always wondered since those college days if Jews and Arabs (and JWs, even) might have had more troubles based on the similarities of their religion.

  Gamaliel
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  41

  The New World Translation

  by MrsQ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone give me an explanation of how the nw translation came about?

  who, exactly, were on this bible translation committee, and what were their qualifications?

  when was it first published?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Gamaliel

  Alf3831,

  Thanks for your insights. I know that Schroeder had many personal books on NT Greek that he had for many years and his own marks in them showed he had studied it seriously. When he learned of my interest, he asked me to do some research on a few NWT issues, with full access to his library. The first project he had me look into was the "house-to-house" issue, and my impression from his own pronunciation and use of dictionaries was that his own Greek was sometimes slow and unsure. I may be overspeaking, butI don't think he had a command of the full, basic NT vocabulary.

  For a few months at Bethel, I set Greek headline type (just the titles) and created some Greek fonts to match some of the fancy fonts we used for the English magazines. Gangas gave me the translations and I noticed that he often mixed up his accents, and I caught a couple more types of mistakes over the months. I discussed learning koine Greek with Gangas, and it was obvious he could read and understand, but at the time I thought Schroeder was actually more careful (even if a bit slow) with koine research. Dean Songer allowed me to go to Athens for a few days to evaluate their ability to set up some pre-press operations for handling their own magazine printing, and some at the Branch expressed disappointment in Gangas' translations of the Watchtower articles. My own Greek was very amateurish, but I still had a knack for picking out a misspelling or other mistake at a quick glance of a page.

  John Albu had lengthy conversations with my roommate, and impressed him with knowledge that went way beyond Hebrew and Greek (Latin, manuscripts, etc). I've written to John, and tried to buy a book from him that he had listed for sale, but I assume he must now known my situation, he didn't respond. Napolitano seemed to be the best in-house resource for Hebrew and Aramaic and was even reading the Peshitta (Syriac) when we both left Bethel at about the same time. He got along very well with Dunlap, but I don't think he had enough direct knowledge of Greek to be one of those assistants. I'm not sure if Napolitano was even in Writing during the first Interlinear work.

  Anyway, I'd love to hear what else might be known about the production of the NWT. I agree with you completely on the smoothness of the NT/CGS vs. the Hebrew, but so much of that was just that awful "prove to be" stuff. When you got used to it, it gave you the feeling that it was trying hard to be accurate to the literal Hebrew..

  Gamaliel
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  41

  The New World Translation

  by MrsQ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone give me an explanation of how the nw translation came about?

  who, exactly, were on this bible translation committee, and what were their qualifications?

  when was it first published?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Gamaliel

  Perhaps you should explain why it is that the brilliant NWT translates malkut as kingship instead of reign in Daniel 1:1 because everybody else who has commented on this point have not got a clue

  That's quite an admission, scholar. I'm pleasantly surprised at your humility. Let's discuss it back on that thread.

  Gamaliel
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  64

  Subliminal Images in Watchtower Literature

  by BornAgainGirl! in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  subliminal images in watchtower stuff:.

  http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=subliminalimages and there are many more than this.. what i want to know is - why?

  what purposes do these images serve?

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  Gamaliel

  When I was at the House in the early '80's,an artist was either demoted or dismissed (don't remember now which) for inserting their own little signature in each piece they did. I believe this was a little bunny,

  Sadelder,

  I didn't know about that one. Are you sure the House you speak of wasn't the Playboy Mansion? Any examples in printed magazines of the bunny or did it get caught in time?

  Gamaliel
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  51

  Update on study with Elder....

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i took the advice of the forum and informed him i wouldlike to study the bible.

  he arrived case in hand and pulled out the draw close to jehovah publication.. i said i thought we were going to study the bible...he then said well this is a bible publication...i said has not past publications contained errors and changes in teachings while the bible remains true.

  he said yesssss.......do you have something inparticular you want to look at in the bible.....i said i thought we could start in matthew and work our way through.

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  Gamaliel

  shotgun,

  Sounds like he got the study instead of you. Sounds like he needs a good Bible Study anyway. Makes you wonder why JWs ever use the expression Bible study in the first place. Most JWs have so little respect for it, even though they're always telling themselves they are the only people following it.

  As far the loss of faith goes, well a lot of us had to go through that, too. It's very painful, but it does not necessarily lead to a loss of hope or love. Who knows? Maybe the faith will come back stronger. I still keep a kind of faith in God, but I think everyone has to prepare to see the Bible as a different kind of book than we were led to expect, if we are truly taking a study of the Bible seriously.

  Gamaliel
• 
  51

  Update on study with Elder....

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i took the advice of the forum and informed him i wouldlike to study the bible.

  he arrived case in hand and pulled out the draw close to jehovah publication.. i said i thought we were going to study the bible...he then said well this is a bible publication...i said has not past publications contained errors and changes in teachings while the bible remains true.

  he said yesssss.......do you have something inparticular you want to look at in the bible.....i said i thought we could start in matthew and work our way through.

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  Gamaliel

  scholar,

  Tou shoud study the Society's biblical chronology 607 with confidence as it based on solid evidence.

  I agree that he should have a cross reference NWT and it is most unfortunate that many of our brothers do appreciate the solidity of aour bible based chronology and prophecy.

  You should be ashamed to make such a statement after personally presenting to all onlookers that 607 and 1914 do not stand on anything. You join almost every thread that mentions 1914 or 607 only to prove that you can't find any basis whatsoever. Whenever anyone has put "real evidence" in front of you for long enough, you have always finally ignored it and effectively said you that don't care about evidence, that it's a matter of faith in the FDS.

  Gamaliel

  PS: For anyone who doesn't believe this, just visit the latest floundering failure of flimsy WT scholarship on the 607 issue. It's at:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/54983/1.ashx

  scholars last two post's contain the following lines pulled out of context (but you have to see the context):

  I do not give a hoot about reconciling the secular data or Jonsson's flawed 14 lines of so called evidence.

  ...its teachings are based upon three elements: Bible, Tradition and Magisterium or Governing Body with its Faithful and Discreet Slave. So if it does make doctines or teachings for the faithful then it is doing so under the guidance and soirit direction of the our Lord and Saviour
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  32

  Need Help Witnessing to JWs

  by HuskerMike in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am new here, and am a christian.

  i had a young man and mother attempt to sell jw to my wife, who agreed to listen but only when i am there.

  we are meeting with them tomorrow.

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  Gamaliel

  Since we don't know how familiar you are with the way JWs speak or think, you'd probably do best going to a few of the excellent exJW sites that people have already mentioned here. If you go to:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/28/default.ashx

  ...you'll find a whole list of them linked from threads on this forum. I'm sure you'lll find stuff you are comfortable discussing.

  Gamaliel
• 
  32

  Need Help Witnessing to JWs

  by HuskerMike in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am new here, and am a christian.

  i had a young man and mother attempt to sell jw to my wife, who agreed to listen but only when i am there.

  we are meeting with them tomorrow.

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  Gamaliel

  I had one show me that John 1:1 verse and I had a lot of fun with it:

  You mean you JWs teach that Jesus is a GOD?? I didn't know that, I always heard that JWs don't accept his deity or his divinity. And there it is right at the beginning of John. Does that mean that you also accept what Thomas said about Jesus near the end of John? Can I see it in your NWT Bible? ------ Wow and they always told me JWs didn't believe in Jesus divinity - and there it is in your own Bible!

  Gamaliel
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  4

  Bible Students and 9/11

  by RR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know how this is going to sound ... but .... who cares.

  i remember well the events of 9/11 and the world trade center, i remember when the twin towers fell, i lost all televsions connect because my access was on the towers, now i have cable.

  i remember getting online and visitiong ceratin chatrooms, particularly on aol and listening to the jw's gloat about the deaths and how they were better off dead because they would have died at armagedon.

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  Gamaliel

  Did/do you know him?

  Don't worry about how this sounds, we lost a former colleague who had just been laid off and had just started her next job w/ Blue Cross down there. So with just that people here still talk about it as if we have some special connection to the disaster. It's a small world, and we need the reminders that life is knitted together.

  I'm still hearing interesting tidbits about the disaster. Not long ago I was sitting next to someone on the LIRR and the person next to her said "You weren't wearing those high heels on 9/11 were you?" She said: "Are you kidding, if I was wearing these, I wouldn't be alive today."

  Gamaliel