Gamaliel

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Posts by Gamaliel

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  58

  Truth and Understanding

  by 777 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the slave is not greater than the master.. jah the almighty was the first sacrifice as the master, where jesus christ was the second as holy or perfect sacrifices.

  jah the almighty had to sacrifice loved ones in order to raise a perfect family in discipline and righteousness.

  without rebellion there would be no need for discipline, there was rebellion, therefore need for discipline.. .

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  Gamaliel

  777,
  
  
  You said: "The meaning of the words is inspired, I am subject to error as a human. Aren't you being a bit critical?"
  
  
  Yes. I was being a bit critical. You have a great interest in recent chronology. I have an interest in psychiatric analysis. (My daughter is currently studying for the profession.) I want to know more about how you think.
  
  
  But I'm also always interested in how someone clarifies mistakes after claiming any form of inspiration - even partial inspiration as the WTBS claims with terms like "spirit-directed". Having been a JW the subject still interests me.
  
  
  You said: "It is easier to correct my error than try to use it as a basis of finding fault."
  
  
  I did not intend any more than to see how serious you were about this business of inspiration.
  
  
  You asked: "How would you put me to the test? Is there something you would like to know about the Heavenly Father that is not written?"
  
  
  Of course. Millions of things I'd love to know. For example: Did the Heavenly Father inspire Jude to quote from the book of Enoch because only part of the book of Enoch was inspired, or because all of the book of Enoch was inspired?
  
  
  And here's another one on inspiration. There are a few places where the writers of portions of the Christian Greek Scriptures (NT) quoted an existing Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures ("LXX") rather than the Hebrew Scriptures directly. In a few cases the argumentation only really works because the Greek translation ("LXX") was different than the Hebrew, and their point they made in the NT would not have made sense based on the Hebrew as it has come down to us, especially through the Masoretic Hebrew. Did the Heavenly Father inspire them to do this because the Hebrew, at least as we now know it, was deficient when compared with the Greek "LXX"?
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  58

  Truth and Understanding

  by 777 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the slave is not greater than the master.. jah the almighty was the first sacrifice as the master, where jesus christ was the second as holy or perfect sacrifices.

  jah the almighty had to sacrifice loved ones in order to raise a perfect family in discipline and righteousness.

  without rebellion there would be no need for discipline, there was rebellion, therefore need for discipline.. .

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  Gamaliel

  777,
  
  This is a bit confusing. You say:
  
  "Everything I [777] say and do is under inspiration as JAH is with me at all times. . . .
  I only write what I am instructed to write as I do nothing of my own accord."
  
  Isn't it odd that JAH inspired you to write about a great flood in December 2005 that actually happened a year earlier. Is JAH such a poor timekeeper. I predict that you will claim that he inspired you to say 2004 but didn't control your typo.
• 
  58

  Truth and Understanding

  by 777 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the slave is not greater than the master.. jah the almighty was the first sacrifice as the master, where jesus christ was the second as holy or perfect sacrifices.

  jah the almighty had to sacrifice loved ones in order to raise a perfect family in discipline and righteousness.

  without rebellion there would be no need for discipline, there was rebellion, therefore need for discipline.. .

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• 

  Gamaliel

  777,
  
  You said: "You took the words written too far. This is how seeds of misunderstanding are planted."
  
  I had few doubts that you didn't want your words taken too far. But I agree that it makes a case for how easy it was for you to plant those seeds of misunderstanding by connecting earthly catastrophes and occurrences with heavenly judgments.
  
  You said: "This was only an example of earthquakes that continue to occur, along with much flooding. Please recall the great flood in December of 2005 and also the flooding in the New Orleans area."
  
  In actuality you didn't reference it as "only an example of earthquakes that continue to occur". In fact, you presented it as an example of "creating great floods as in the days of Noah". It's as if you had missed the context of the reference in Matthew to "the days of Noah" and thought that literal FLOODING was the point, and not the SURPRISE with which the judgment came upon them. ("they took no note.") You do something similar later in the same post when you loosely imply that there is a "flood" connection in Revelation where it speaks about a voice that is as the "sound of many waters". If this is the reason for the underscore you made in that verse, it is another indication of a type of muddled thinking that can lead to imprudent, indiscreet and unwise predictions. I think most people might see in this a tendency to read something literal into what is merely a simile. It's not an uncommon problem in muddled Biblical exegesis and eisegesis.
  
  You claim about yourself: "Please recall the great flood in December of 2005 and also the flooding in the New Orleans area. I was witness to the floods before they occured and even provided advanced messages of warning in part, to the governing body in New York by written word, and also by phone calls."
  
  I'm sure that calling some governing body in New York would have been at least as valuable as calling FEMA in Washington, DC. I suspect that a prediction about the great flood in December of 2005 wouldn't have been much help since it actually had already occurred in December 2004. (If you are speaking of the tsunami.)
  
  I'd like you think about something, though. Please think deeply and honestly about this question. Is it possible that you also WOULD have been a "witness in advance" of this most recent POTENTIAL tsunami flood that you attached a news article about, but which did not actually occur? Recall that you didn't present this as a reference to ongoing earthquakes but as evidence of the "creating of great floods as in the days of Noah". Is it possible you also "witnessed" this in advance as you witnessed the flooding in New Orleans in advance?
  
  I ask this because you seem to believe your predictions. When many cases of those who believe they can predict such things are studied more closely, those who truly believe themselves are often doing something they don't realize. They are "filtering" out the failed predictions. What would have been a true prediction, and "proof" of divine authorship, now becomes a quickly dismissed, unwarranted thought of personal, unknown or even sinister origin. In other words, I think it is quite possible that you may actually believe your ability because you filter out failed predictions and only keep the successful ones. (And of course, many people predicted the New Orleans disaster from several years right up to several hours before it happened.)
  
  You said: "Many great disasters have occured and cannot be denied. These were great signs as to the time and season in relation to the Kingdom of GOD, and the arrival of Jesus Christ."
  
  For me, and hopefully for those who might otherwise be misled, this statement is evidence that you don't understand what Matthew, Mark and Luke were trying to report about the nature of signs and their relation to the "kingdom of God". Granted that there are varying possible interpretations of Jesus' reported words, but think about this verse from Luke 17:20–24 "Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, 'The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, "Look, here it is!" or "There it is!" For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you.'
  
  You probably know that some translations correctly get this idea across in English by saying: "the coming of the kingdom of God is predicted with signs."
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  50

  For those of you who went to Bethel, how was the food?

  by TresHappy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how were the doomsday dumplings?.

  seriously, was the food good?

  i used to hear it was awesome; somehow i don't believe that!

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  Gamaliel

  What-A-Coincidence,
  
  You said: "that is why sometime in the late 1990's they told us not to rip the coupons/offers from the cereal boxes unless you take the whole box cause they reuse the cereals agains ... but they can't store the boxes that are ripped up."
  
  Yeah. I always got annoyed when someone else screwed up a good thing. They had already made that announcement in the 1970's too, before I had even collected enough coupons for a whole serving set for 8. It turned out to be the motivation. After all the trouble we always went through to take only empty boxes and even after doing the work of the serving crew by consolidating partial boxes into full boxes that weren't tampered with, there was still always some brother (usually sister, in this case) who would mess up the plan by ripping up boxes "against the rules". We figured that would ruin it for the silverware offer and that someone in charge would soon come up with someway not to even bring the boxes to the tables. But when the boxes for that offer came out one last time (we thought) I got 2 or 3 volunteers to go through each dining room and that's how we ended up with more coupons than I could use myself.
  
  Ah! The petty memories.
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  58

  Truth and Understanding

  by 777 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the slave is not greater than the master.. jah the almighty was the first sacrifice as the master, where jesus christ was the second as holy or perfect sacrifices.

  jah the almighty had to sacrifice loved ones in order to raise a perfect family in discipline and righteousness.

  without rebellion there would be no need for discipline, there was rebellion, therefore need for discipline.. .

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  2. 
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• 

  Gamaliel

  777,
  
  You said: "Most recently another tsunami warning creating great floods as in the days of noah."
  
  Actually, tsunamis can create great floods, but tsunami WARNINGS do not create great floods. Warnings can turn out to be false predictions. Warnings can be lifted and revised.
  
  One of the oft-missed points of the predictions made in Matthew 24 (Mark 13, Luke 21) to which you allude, is the fact that Christians should NOT add to people's fear and anxiety over rumors and warnings of significant earthly events. Floods, wars, famines, pestilence, earthquakes and such things are things that foolish ones (like JWs, for example) might get fooled by. They might get overly anxious to see them as signs of impending judgment. Why else would Jesus add "do not be MISLED" repeatedly during his answer to the disciples' reqeust about a "sign".
  
  We should all take precautions during any serious warnings, of course, but my point is that Christians should keep a clear head, and think clearly. Especially those who "accept" or put themselves in positions of teaching others. The undercurrent of Jesus' statements is about the ease with which one could be misled over physical "signs" and think that these somehow relate to signs from heaven, which come suddenly and surprisingly - with no relationship to earthly, physical signs.
  
  You appear to be doing exactly what Jesus is reported to have warned against. The connection you made between a false tsunami warning and prophecies about the great floods reminiscent of the "days of Noah" was exactly the kind of connection that Jesus said NOT to make. Apparently, you even implied that God might override his covenant with Noah about never destroying the earth through flooding. If you feel you have a God-given right, or a duty "as a Mighty God" to attempt to change covenants, so be it. But to me, to make such an implication implies muddled thinking which is not worthy of much consideration. After all, a tree is judged by its fruits.
  
  Your highlight of the tsunami warning seems an example of imprudent, indiscreet and unwise examples in your teaching. No wonder that "faithful and discreet" slaves of Christ were represented as being patient and doing what was expected of them as "slaves" of Christ - not masters of any kind. Quite the opposite of those who try to lord it over fellow servants. The temptation of fellow servants to think they need to become "lords" or "mighty gods" to manipulate the attention of fellow servants has a long history. It's not just the history of Christians since Jesus died. It's the entire history of humankind.
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  50

  For those of you who went to Bethel, how was the food?

  by TresHappy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how were the doomsday dumplings?.

  seriously, was the food good?

  i used to hear it was awesome; somehow i don't believe that!

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Gamaliel

  1976 to 1980 the food was great! Physical food was the most redeeming aspect of Bethel. Almost made up for the spiritual slop.
  
  
  Actually the most "redeeming" aspect, pun intended, was when, after breakfast, I collected the free silverware boxtops (for stainless steel, but high quality) from 300 boxes of cereal (Kellogg's Corn Flakes). I got enough silverware to give away a couple of sets of 8. (I think I got about 2 dozen knives, forks, spoons, and various serving sets) I saved one set for my own then-upcoming wedding in June 1980. We still have most of it.
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  8

  Brooklyn on fire.

  by GBSJG in

  1. social
  2. current

  there seems to be some buildings on fire in brooklyn is this near the wts?

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  http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4137745

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  Gamaliel

  This is not in the Brooklyn Heights or DUMBO (bridges) area. As Leolaia already mentioned, 9/11 "ground zero" was a lot closer.
  
  It reminds me of the Hotel Margaret fire that started in the middle of the night on one extremely cold night in January 1980. The fire department hoses started working more like snowblowers. The heat was so intense that my building had melted windows in the Service Department offices, with additional window damage on the second floor, outside of Bert Schroeder's office and the Gilead classrooms. My room was on the third floor right outside the door of the Gilead library. Several cars parked around the building burned thoroughly.
  
  That fire in 1980 was also assumed to be arson. Bethelites (including a former roommate) claimed they saw people going in the day before with bails of hay. The upshot was that the developer, Bruce Eichner, who was nearing completion of his renovation of the hotel into condos, lost everything apparently. He had insured the building for $3 million, barely covering the building mortgage and his construction loans, but still owed the city another $300,000 to carry the rubble away after expenses. They wouldn't let him build it up again because, although the hotel was 175 feet tall, no new construction could rise above 50 feet. (Our building was a bit over the limit, too, and JWs fought this same rule many times, themselves.) Eichner was a long time Brooklyn Heights developer and had competed with the JWs for some of the same properties (360 Furman, Franklin Arms Hotel). His next Brooklyn Heights attempt collapsed (literally) during renovations at the Hotel Montague, and he started making his fortune in Manhattan.
  
  In 1980, there was an undercurrent of suspicion that the Watchtower Society might have been involved. I say this, not because it was -- at least, I doubt very much that it was -- but because it was a very "suspicious" time. Witch hunts were being conducted. Star chamber tactices were being employed. Friends were being asked to turn against their friends. Long-time friends and neighbors were "disappearing" after accusation or suspicion alone. A midnight fire during the peak of this trouble was just further fuel.
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  30

  Prediction of date for WT admin collapse

  by Smiles in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  a group calling themselves the lord's witnesses has predicted the collapse of the wt administration in late may/early june of 2006. you can see their prediction timeline at their website.. http://www.truebiblecode.com/understanding101.html.

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  Gamaliel

  I just noticed them when looking up some odd views of the 1260, 1290, 1335 days in Daniel. The 1290 started in 2004 because that's when the Watchtower finally became a false religion. I guess the threshold was finally met when they moved from "n" false doctrines to "n+1" (where n may have been, who knows...maybe 665?). Quote from the site: 1290 days of Daniel 12 start, first 4600 solar days of Daniel 8 (2300 evenings and mornings) end. The abomination causing desolation to FDS3 is placed. The Watchtower becomes a false religion.
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  19

  Question about the 1260 and 1335 days

  by mathead in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was just at jwfacts.com and was looking at the daniel/revelation phrophecies.

  the book of daniel mentions 1260 and 1335 days.

  the wts interprets these dates as follows:.

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  Gamaliel

  mathead, Take a quick look at the Daniel book pages quoted on this forum. It's about the 1290, not the 1260 or 1335. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=903&pid=12960&st=0entry12960
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  10

  Kingdom Melody song 23

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone know where i can dl an mp3 of this song?

  i can find the midi everywhere but no mp3's of this, a little help guys

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  Gamaliel

  In that case, try here:
  
  http://www.l-and-a.com.au/comm/addons/midi.html#21
  
  It's not an MP3, but you can take care of that with plenty of programs or even free utilities.