no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
SB: The Christian hope for those alive just prior to the GT is the Rapture - the snatching away.
If that is what you think and you believe that chart, then there is perhaps nothing I can say to correct your thinking, but that is not what the Bible states. Jesus is said to have a 2nd coming and it is AFTER the GT. This does not allow for him to come BEFORE the GT.
no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
SB: Church age believers will not go through the GT. We are not appointed to wrath: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ - 1 Thess, 5: 9
The wrath that (as you word it) 'Church age believes' will not be appointed to is Armageddon. All 'believers' will certainly go through the GT. That is what will determine whom a TRUE believe is. One either comes out of the GT a sheep or a goat. Goats are appointed to wrath and sheep to salvation.
1 Thess that you cite above takes place AFTER the GT and corresponds to Matt 24:30,31.
no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
Vid: Question is: When is the sealing to take place?
The answer is NO none have been sealed, it is to take place still future according to what is written, but that does not matter in regard to what I am saying. In order for these individuals to be sealed in the future, they have to exist prior to their sealing.
Are you aware of ANY on earth today that can be said to be following the Lamb wherever he goes, are not defiling themselves, and they have no deceit in their mouths and without blemish? Those requirements are to be found in them prior to their sealing.
no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
there will be chosen ones*
* [These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb]
Rather the Bible is true or not, that is what it says. So, if it is true, then there should be those. If it is not true, then there is no Lamb to follow, so there are no chosen ones to rule, etc.
I find myself in a conundrum. I admit that I believe in Jehovah (Jehoah) and Jesus (Jehoshua), at least as far as what the Bible says. I know that believing the Bible doesn't mean it's true, but that is where I am at, that is what I believe. To not believe in the Bible, is a belief in itself. (To be an atheist, etc.) I can't prove the Bible is true, therefore prove Jehoah and Jehoshua are. I believe what I do though because I see as poof with my own eyes that man CANNOT rule themselves.
But something that I should also be able to see for myself (we all should) if they existed, are these so-called 144k chosen ones (rather literal or symbolic).
I would settle for just knowing the whereabouts of just one of them.
[These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.]
Where are ANY of these so-called chosen ones now?
no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
Vid - The emphasis has shifted from earthly Jerusalem to Mount Zion of heavenly Jerusalem.
That is how I understand it to be. A person who identifies as being a Christian is also a spiritual Jew. And as far as 144k, I just say there will be chosen ones* that will have part in the first resurrection and rule with Jesus. And then there are those that will be who make up the GC.**
* [These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb]
** [they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]
no mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
Vid- Those who remain faithful to God are “virgins” as to world affairs.
I am of that line of thinking too. Didn't think “virgins” was really speaking of the sexual manner but instead the spiritual.
SB- Why would that be your 1st take? What is wrong with a plain reading?
Also, can see that the number could be literal.
No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth
still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
PetrW:
Why will the two witnesses not preach until after the 7th trumpet? I think the answer is in Rev 11:7: they are to preach and the Beast of Abyss will end their preaching.
Deathstroke on beast (in the abyss)
Beast comes out of abyss (deathstroke healed)
At this point beast gets its 42-month authority (Rev 13:5) and corresponds with Rev 11:2,3
The two witnesses are killed during the 2nd woe (6th trumpet), which when it is said to have past, then the 3rd woe comes (7th trumpet)
3rd woe will cause beast to be thrown into lake of fire, his 42 months authority will have ended by that time. 3rd woe is Jesus coming at Armageddon. That is when the Kingdom comes. (Rev 11:14,15)
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
EasyPrompt:
Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear that Jesus is the same as the rider of the white horse, the first of the "four horsemen".
How is it that Rev 19:11-16 makes clear that Jesus is the rider on the first horse of the 4 horsemen?
Are you saying that based on the horses in both accounts being white?
If you think Jesus is one of the 4 horsemen, whom do you think the other 3 represent?
still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
PetrW:
The interesting question is when the event announced in trumpet 6 will begin: for Rev 11:2 uses futurum for "trampling" and that it will last 42 months. And in Rev. 11:3 it is written, again using futurum, that "a (suggestion) will be given" to the two witnesses to prophesy (again futurum) 1260 days. For completeness, I add that the second woe ends in Rev. 11:14, and only then, the 3rd woe occurs, at the sounding of the 7th and final trumpet (see also Paul).
In my opinion, the two witnesses begin preaching shortly after the 7th trumpet sounds, that is when the 1260 days begin to be counted.
The 2nd woe that occurs with the 6th trumpet has to do with the trampling for 42-months. This time period ends before the 3rd woe/7th trumpet is blown. Why would you think that the two witnesses begin preaching after the 7th trumpet?
still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
EasyPrompt:
The 7 trumpets are not literal, neither are the 7 bowls or 7 plagues. They are all different depictions of the complete judgment of God. There will not be seven different trumpet blasts or seven different plagues. They are taken all together to depict what will happen during the 3 1/2 years of the tribulation ahead.
If the 7 trumpets are not literal, then what is the "last trumpet" referring to?
[1 Corinthians 15:51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, 52 in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.]
And how do you explain trumpets 1-5 occurring during the 3 1/2 years?
These 5 trumpets are said to be blown and events associated with them end before the 3 1/2 years begin. (It is within the 6th trumpet that the 42 months are said to occur.)
[Revelation 8:7 And the first one blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 8:8 And the second angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”]
[Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 9:12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.]
[Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
[Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]
[Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet.]
