Posts by Duran
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22Netflix Live Boxing Event
by moomanchu inwhen i was in the org it seemed most brothers were very much into football and other sports.
which looking back makes no sense and makes me wonder why?
it felt like an overcompensating to be masculine.. shouldn't football be deemed unchristian?
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
the last post you linked to the MEV version of the Bible (a retranslation of the KJV that attempts to be inclusive for modern Christian thoughts) and stated that you could not be rebutted because you only made claims from scripture as if what you had quoted up to that point could not be rebutted
LOL! Take a breath.
Whatever version I used I just picked randomly. He linked a site, and I picked one on there. (I believe more than one I used.) I have no preference. You seem to! What do you prefer?
And the initial claims can be rebutted as he did. And because of doing so is why I set out to explain/support what I claimed.
Here is his rebutted to my initial claim which is fine at that point:
Equating the MOL with the 8th king and other apocalyptic figures (e.g., King of the North, small horn) is speculative and unsupported by Scripture. Paul’s reference to the MOL in 2 Thessalonians 2 speaks to a spiritual rebellion, which Catholic teaching sees as applicable across history, not confined to one individual or regime. Your claim that the MOL sits in God’s temple (2 Thessalonians 2:4) being the same as the 8th king in Revelation 17 misreads both texts. The "temple" in Paul’s writing likely refers to the Church or God's spiritual dwelling, not a literal structure tied to a specific political entity.
Here is my replay:
In regard to the 8th king/MOL/KOTN/DT etc., before I say more, answer these questions first and mull for a bit on those following Scriptures.
But then his response right after (you can go read it here) caused for me to have to say:
Regardless, you could not even do what was asked and that was to first tell me the when and how those 4 come to their end.
And in regard to the Scriptures, I asked you just to mull over them for a bit before I say more, meaning don't reply about them yet,And on and on it went.
So, what I said that you are referring to is, that he cannot rebut my argument/explanation, because I never even got the chance to give it.
Yet he says:
3. Rebuttal of Your Arguments
He is still trying to rebut my initial claims and Scriptures that I CLEARLY told him to read now, don't reply back yet about them, I will say more later.
Anyway, I am done speaking about it.
The problem is that he is a Catholic here trying to promote their teachings. That is as bad as a JW here trying to promote their teachings.
It is different than others here that are ex-JWs that still believe the Bible and try to talk about things to a degree of trying to understand things, while not promoting any particular religion. If anything, the WTS by all its BS, has shown to need to get away from ALL religions, including it.
That said about trying to understand that Bible, I also can see and appreciate comments like this:
nicolaou
You guys will strain out the Watchtowers gnats but swallow the Bible's camels. -
171
Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
When they stop linking to WOL as their proof, then you can engage in discussion.
LOL!
Look back here (last post) and check the hyperlinks to what was used. This is because I can use ANY to prove what I am saying. And there is no engaging in discussion with him. He responds one sided (his side). He lacks the ability to respond to what is asked. And does not understand what he reads.
For example:
When you state, for example, that the Man of Lawlessness (MOL) is the same as the 8th King, the King of the North, or the Small Horn, you are making an interpretive leap that demands evidence. Citing passages that describe these figures without demonstrating their interconnectedness is insufficient.
Second, your approach to symbolic versus literal interpretation lacks clarity and consistency. You accuse me of not understanding your intended point about symbolic and literal timeframes, but you have provided no explanation to reconcile your interpretive method.
Third, your reliance on isolated proof texts creates a fragmented interpretation. By citing a series of unrelated verses about “time” and “judgment,” you attempt to draw conclusions about the timing and nature of prophetic events.
He responds with that even though I told him that I was going to cite Scriptures first for him to review/think about. And I was going to also ask a few questions first to get those answers. (I need those as my foundation for timing.) Then I would explain why I connect those Scriptures to support the claims I do.
Him being told that, and yet he still responds as he did above.
Does that sound like someone that can comprehend...
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171
Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
First to everything you said/say and how you respond...
3. Rebuttal of Your Arguments
I don't know how you can rebut me at this point because I haven't made my arguments. I have only made claims of who I say entities are and cited Scriptures that I will use to support my claims. Your response never allows to move forward. But at this point I will not be bothering to make such arguments to you as you are too foolish to keep responding to. Proverbs 26:4
That's All I Have To Say About That- Forrest Gump Quote
And as far as times being symbolic or literal and Jesus' ministry you have no clue, nor do you know what I was going to say about it.
[6 While we were yet helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.]
[ 29 Suddenly they shouted, “What have you to do with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”]
[21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints, and prevailed over them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints received the kingdom.]
[3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.]
[ 19 He said, “Listen, and I will tell you what will take place later in the period of wrath, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.]
[17 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?]
[7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, for the hour of his judgment has come; and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the fountains of water.”]
[12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom yet, but they will receive authority as kings for one hour with the beast.]
[ 6 One said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the water of the river, “How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?” 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was over the water of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time. [a] And when they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.]
[3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will wage war against them and overcome them and kill them.]
[ 5 A mouth was given to him speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 7 It was also given to him to make war with the [d]saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.]
[33 “The wise among the people shall instruct many. Yet for many days they shall fall by the sword and by flame, by captivity and by destruction.]
[12 Blessed is he who waits and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.]
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171
Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
ALL that you said and still no answers. There you go again continuing to try to say what these things are and are not, when you have already done so.
It was you that said:
Equating the MOL with the 8th king and other apocalyptic figures (e.g., King of the North, small horn) is speculative and unsupported by Scripture.
So, now I am responding to show the Scriptural support. But you do not allow for that because instead of just answering and waiting for what I have to say about the Scriptures I cited, you keep responding with the same nonsense you have already said, to which is what I was already in the process of responding to.
If you think you answered what I asked, then can you copy and paste just the precise part in your reply that says when and how do each come to their end.
[MOL - 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.]
[KOTN - 45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.]
[ Rev 17 8th king- 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”]
[Rev 13 beast - 19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.]
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Also, you never answered this:
How long from Jesus being baptized and starting his ministry to him returning to heaven?
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
I would like to ask you to avoid copying whole Bible chapters in the future, especially from the NWT, I can find it too.
LOL! I did not do such. What I cited there was from Matthew, Daniel, Luke, Rev, Thess, and 1 Peter and not whole chapters from them. It was necessary for me to cite them out because it is the bolden parts that I am drawing attention to. Unfortunately, I ran out of edit time to bolden the last two.
Regardless, you could not even do what was asked and that was to first tell me the when and how those 4 come to their end.
And in regard to the Scriptures, I asked you just to mull over them for a bit before I say more, meaning don't reply about them yet, which of course you could not resist doing, only to reply with pure nonsense and lack of understanding.
Shall we try again or are you running scared...
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When and how do each of the following come to their end:
8th king (Rev 17)
beast and false prophet (Rev 13)
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171
Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
Revelation 13’s 42 months is symbolic of a period of intense persecution and opposition to God, not a literal three-and-a-half-year rule of a specific political entity like the "8th king."
How long from Jesus being baptized and starting his ministry to him returning to heaven?
Equating the MOL with the 8th king and other apocalyptic figures (e.g., King of the North, small horn) is speculative and unsupported by Scripture. Paul’s reference to the MOL in 2 Thessalonians 2 speaks to a spiritual rebellion, which Catholic teaching sees as applicable across history, not confined to one individual or regime. Your claim that the MOL sits in God’s temple (2 Thessalonians 2:4) being the same as the 8th king in Revelation 17 misreads both texts. The "temple" in Paul’s writing likely refers to the Church or God's spiritual dwelling, not a literal structure tied to a specific political entity.
First off, I never said the MOL sits in a literal structure. I said he is said to sit in God's temple and the 8th king is said to be in God's holy place and that the temple and holy place are the same place.
As far as what the temple and holy place is, it is God's people all around the world.
In regard to the 8th king/MOL/KOTN/DT etc., before I say more, answer these questions first and mull for a bit on those following Scriptures.
When and how do each of the following come to their end:
8th king (Rev 17)
beast and false prophet (Rev 13)
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[15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),][31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation. 32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. 33 And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. 36 “The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the God of his fathers; nor will he show regard for the desire of women or for any other god, but he will magnify himself over everyone.]
[ 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.]
[12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.][5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.][11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. 14 It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 16 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.][6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.” 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb.][20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]
[24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]
[2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.]
[17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?]
[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
You claim you are not a JW while you parrot the JW interpretation, and use the NWT. Why not use a scholarly Bible translation like NRSVue?
LOL!
I use the NWT because I had to use that when discussing anything with JWs. I got used to it and don't feel the need to use another. That does not mean I don't go to Bible Hub and read different translations and check Hebrew and Greek words.
As far as 'parroting' JW interpretations, you either don't know what they teach or don't know what it means to 'parrot' something.
They think Jesus came in 1914 and became king then.
I say he became king in 33 c.e. and does not come until AFTER the GT/8th king.
They say the first resurrection began in 1918 and is ongoing.
I say in occurs when Jesus comes.
They say the 42 months of the beast in Rev 13 occurred in 1914-1918.
I say it is still future when the 8th king is given power from the nations.
They say the MOL is false Christian religions or something to the effect.
I say the MOL is the same as the 8th king/DT/KOTN/the Northerner/KFIC/small horn, etc.
They say any interaction with Jesus in the future is from heaven and invisible.
I say it is visible and takes place on earth.
I could go on and on. Once again you have no clue to what you say. I am not in agreement with their interpretations, but it is you that is lock step with the CC.
The only thing I 'parrot' are the Scriptures themselves. Any commentary I write should be able to be seen clearly within the Scriptures I cite, i.e. 'Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation.' Mark 13:24-26
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
I don't know why you feel the need to keep saying 'catholic this' and 'JW that'. I am not a JW; my view is based on what I show in the Scriptures I cite. And I could give a rat ass if you are catholic, you are on this forum speaking not your church, so speak based on what you believe/think not what the CC believes/thinks.
You have the same foolishness as JWs in that you just regurgitate what others teach/say with no real understanding of it at all, right or wrong. You fail to reason for yourself. Everything you respond back with is just pure nonsense.
[Hymenaeus and Philetus are among them. 18 These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.]
[However, brothers, concerning the presence/coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him/first resurrection, we ask you 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.]
[8 Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings.]
[25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.]
[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.]
You can save your breathe/fingers from replying about your cc taught spiritual resurrections as it does not matter in this regard to what resurrection I am speaking of here.
Clearly in Paul's day the resurrection Hymenaeus and Philetus were saying occurred already, did not. Because of Paul being aware of that and knowing that that resurrection occurs when Jesus comes, Paul puts out a warning/gives insight, so no one is misled into believing Jesus has come and the resurrection occurred.
His warning is that any talk about Jesus coming and the resurrection/being gathered together is nonsense and don't believe it because he will not come until first the MOL comes first.
This MOL is the same as the 8th king. This is clear because the MOL and the 8th king/beast both are done away with when Jesus comes. The MOL is said to be in God's temple and the 8th king is said to be in God's holy place which is the same place. Also, some of the ones that rule as kings are said to have refused the MOTB. This shows that these two entities are one in the same as it is on hand ruling over/causing suffering and persecution upon God's people who are refusing to support it.
It is after that period that God's people will now receive relief from the tribulation, they were suffering under the 8th king/MOL rule. It is a result of Jesus coming that they get that relief which he can now do because the MOL came first as Paul said would have to happen. Now with Jesus' arrival, the first resurrection/gathering the chosen ones occurred. That is when he is glorified in connection with them.
2 Thessalonians 2:3,4,8-12
Rev 13:5,7,10,11-17;19:20,21;20:4,6
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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Duran
[Hymenaeus and Philetus are among them. 18 These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.]
It is clear that back in Paul's day 'the resurrection' had not occurred yet. That resurrection is what is called the 'first' and it occurs on what is said to be the 'last day', which corresponds with Jesus' second coming.
That first resurrection (or earlier one) has to do with those chosen who will rule with Jesus for the 1,000 years. This resurrection is what Paul was trying to achieve. This resurrection cannot happen until after the 42-month rule of the 8th king in which time the MOTB, etc. occurs. We know this because some of the chosen are those that did not take the mark/worship the beast which means they have to be living during that time under the rule of the 8th king refusing him and as a result being killed. Then the first resurrection takes place when Jesus comes on the last day and the 8th king/beast is thrown into the fiery lake and Satan in the abyss.
That last day begins the kingdom rule of the 1,000 years. It is the last day of Satan's rule and the first day of the kingdom rule. This is why all chosen will have to be resurrected first in order to be with Jesus at the start of the 1,000 years.
In addition to those chosen ones and Jesus, the others that will be on hand at the beginning of the 1,000 years will be those of the GC that lived through the GT/8th king rule refusing him. All that support him were killed off when he was thrown into the fiery lake.
1. WW3/horsemen
2. GT/8th king rule
3. Sun, moon, stars event, Jesus comes/last day/first resurrection of chosen/kingdom rule begins/beast and its followers killed/GC lives on