Posts by Halcon

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

A non material soul can experience torment without actually burning physically, because there is nothing physical to burn.

To be consistent we can say that a soul is tormented by the flames of hell while not actually physically burning in the flames.

The definition of tormenting is "inflicting severe physical or mental suffering"

We both agree it's not a physical burning of the body since there is no physical body to burn. That leaves us with a mental suffering. This fits in with your interpretation of the body separating from the soul at death. A mental tormenting is also a logical possibility for spirit beings such as demons.

You see a mental suffering of the soul as worse than a physical one. I see it as less severe, in fact I see it as a relief in comparison to everlasting physical pain from burning.

Hell as a state of eternal mental tormenting is still an unwanted state no doubt.

In fact it could be considered more so a self inflicting punishment than a physical burning hell, because you eliminate the factor of fear, thus underlining the factor of free will. In other words, if I'm not afraid of hell, I can't blame God for my choosing (with my actions) to be there to begin with.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that a person's soul cannot feel pain after death?
Please explain your logic/point

Correct, in order to experience physical pain a sentient being must have a physical body. This is logical. It is the creation of the nervous system that allows for this. You must have one to feel different temperatures for example, or pleasure or pain.

God, Jesus, angels, demons are never described as getting physically old, arthritic, ill , dying of old age etc. Why? Because they are not human beings.

In fact, the scriptures very logically explain that in order for non-human beings to experience physical things they MUST first materialize into flesh and blood. The angels did it in order to experience sex with women. Clearly they couldn't have sex unless they were actual men. Jesus FIRST had to become a physical man before being able to spill his physical blood, not symbolic or spiritual blood.

This means that non-human beings are actually limited in what they can experience. Which means that God does not blur the line between a human being and a spirit being. You are either one or the other.

The scriptures tell us that a spirit being, a demon for example, can still feel abandoned by God. They can feel regret, hatred, jealousy, even lust...or an angel like Gabriel who can feel respect and love, admiration. These are emotions of the figurative heart. The scriptures clearly show however, that in order for them to feel pleasure or pain, they must FIRST become human.

Note also how God actually condemned the angels that materialized into men for sex. This emphasized God's distinction between spirit and human bodies and demonstrated specifically that the human body is no less legitimate.

38

the toll of being PIMO

by enoughisenough in

for those of you who are pimo, how do you feel it may be effecting your mental and physical health?

is it easy to pretend to be what you are not?

how do you feel about falsely supporting the pimi which builds them up and therefore an org you don't believe in?

Halcon

What about the elder who was in an adulterous relationship with a person with whom he was "studying" and planning to confess to the elders and divorce his wife until the notice from the CO that he was chosen (by HS?) to deliver a keynote talk at the District Convention? He delayed his "confession" and divorce until after the convention as it was his opinion that HS had determined HE WAS THE BEST PERSON to deliver that talk. WTF

This made me laugh. Wonder what went thru the guy's mind while he was up in that stage.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

With all due respect, your feelings are not the standard by which to apply criminal justice.

I was referring to God's administering of justice as clearly written in the scriptures. A justice so obvious that Jesus invited us to use reason in comparing it to ours as wicked beings.

And nothing you said above requires physically burning in hell for an eternity to be true. One can be conscious and at the same time know that one is separated and abandoned by God.

You revealed that you believe that the soul is eternal. And you know for a fact that the physical body isn't. If we know that a physical body is required to feel physical pain, then that should give us a clue as to what hell isn't.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

The level of insanity, cruelty and plain old sadism required should make us thankful that it doesn't exist.

Tonus

If God truly is love, as the scriptures repeatedly claim, non-existence is a more logical punishment. To return to dust. To disintegrate you so as to never be conscious again.

In the old testament God is shown 'cutting off' the wicked, simply ending their life. Never once does he instruct Joshua for example to round up the Canaanites and torture them with fire. We do however read how God detested the Canaanite ritual of burning children alive as a sacrifice to their gods, an act that never rose in God's heart to begin with, according to Scripture.

Jesus also stated "if you, being wicked, can show love to your children, how much more so will God show you love".

Non-existence is a more humane state of being than a state of eternal torture. We as human beings agree on this. We cannot be more humane than God.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

I'm simply stating that a literal physical hell would mean that heaven is a literal physical place too.

Both destinations occur after the physical human experience ends, most often after death according to the scriptures.

But if the physical human experience continues for the ones condemned to hell, why would it be different for the ones going to heaven?

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

Exactly

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

I think that verse is a big clue on whether heaven OR hell will be experienced.

God is willing to justify you based on nothing more than belief on our part…. A very generous offer

Most certainly it will be either heaven or hell...the question is HOW will either be experienced, which is the question this thread brought up.

Imagine hell being a literal place, somewhere deep inside this planet or another. The opposite would also be literal. Heaven would be a literal place either on this planet or another, a literal physical paradise. Which would mean that the JW interpretation is actually the correct one after all.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:smile:

I think this verse is a big clue regarding how hell or heaven is to be experienced.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Halcon

If a burning hell is a literal place, then it must mean that there is a civilization of human beings literally deep underground or on another literal planet experiencing pain as punishment.