Posts by Halcon

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Mustard- A man that has no knowledge of good and evil can't be given a reason "why" he should refrain, other than a direct threat to his own physical experience, just a general consequence in a cause/effect relationship.

Yes, I would agree this sums up what transpired between Adam and God.

He could understand facts told to him. And logic. But since he didn't understand good from evil, right from wrong, navigating a world of free will would be like navigating a world of color when all you can see is gray.

All the more reason for him to have simply kept doing what he'd been doing all along until then. God couldn't have made it easier, even for someone that didn't know good from evil.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Jeffro -Yes, God told the lie.

This snake is good...

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

And, in the story, the snake was correct. It was not certain that eating from the tree of knowledge would result in death.

Except God said -

17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die".

Eve understood the same thing, repeating it back to the snake verbatim.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

jeffro -In the version I have, God doesn’t tell Eve (who doesn’t get a name until later in the story) anything about either tree, and only tells Adam about the tree of knowledge. The story doesn’t state whether Eve is directly told by God about the tree of knowledge or whether it’s via Adam, but it doesn’t say either are told about the tree of life.

Here is Genesis chapter 2

15 "The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die"

God prohibited Adam and Eve to eat from only ONE tree. They could eat from all the other trees to their hearts content. This included the tree of life.

As presented in the story, the snake didn’t lie when it said that eating the knowledge fruit doesn’t itself cause death.

God said of the wrong tree, and Eve repeated in the next chapter, "for when you eat from it you will certainly die".

The snake said the exact opposite thing as the words above..."you will not certainly die".

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Jeffro -Nonsense. In the story, Eve dies because the jerk God character prevents her from eating a separate magical fruit, not because of any inherent property of the first magical fruit (which does precisely what the snake said would happen). Nothing in the story suggests the snake knew that would happen.

Read the verses in Genesis 3 below jeffro -

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

How did the snake know what God had said to Eve?

2 "The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Now here immediately comes the lie

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

As you explained, thereafter God took away the tree of life...and both Adam and Eve died, just as God told them they would if they ate from the wrong tree.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Jeffro -After Adam and Eve eat the magical fruit of one tree, God has to take action to prevent them eating from a different magical tree. It is directly stated in the story that it is the fruit of the other magical tree that imparts eternal life, not refraining from eating the fruit of the first tree. (All of the quibbling about what day ‘really’ means is just a distraction.)

This is precisely why it was the snake that lied.

The snake said to Eve "you will not die"

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Jeffro -So if you don’t care whether something is actually true, then yes ‘Satan is the first liar’ according to Christianity (duh).

Duh, but it wasn't so obvious to several folks here.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Tonus - I would have to, wouldn't I?

Yes, to live. I would too.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

Halcon

Tonus -I'm more fascinated by the concept of the Tree of Life. The story implies that Adam and Eve were not immortal- they had a finite lifespan. They had to have access to the Tree of Life if they wanted to continue to live. Yahweh is not above the most petty mechanisms of control.

But would you still eat of the tree of life if it meant to keep living?