this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Jeffro -Still waiting for a meaningful definition of ‘spirit’. Because the previous attempt was entirely asinine, it’s probably worth clarifying the difference between a definition and a function.
Lol jeffro. Ok, how about this one.
Spirit is your truer self from the perspective of God.
I don't think there's anything resembling a function in the previous sentence.
Nicolaou -Halcon, how would you define 'unicorn'?
If I give you a definition, will you call it asinine like jeffro did?
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Pete- Many Jews and Christians would find that comment odd. Most would rather understand the animating of creation, including Adam, as the result of divine 'spirit/wind/breath' -a divine spark. Ecc 3 describes this divine 'spirit' as returning to God. Many saw the same in the trees and the wind.
I was simply pointing out that the scripture you quoted about Yahweh not being in the wind made sense since God is not the wind, or any other creation.
Your comments about the divine spark and divine spirit God emits, if I'm understanding them correctly, would be the same as mine.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Thanks for the link Pete, I will definitely check this out. I'm right in the middle of David McCullough's 1776, in the spirit of 4th of July. Great read so far. I'll reach for your recommendation next. I'm especially fascinated by the Greek and Roman mythologies since childhood. Looking forward to learning a bit more on the subject.
However, the Deuteronomist made some adjustments to the story that disturbed him. To keep this brief, he then repeatedly interjects a denial after each physical appearance/manifestation of Yahweh.
Indeed, this is an aspect that is predominant in the Christian faith...the separation of God from his creation or anything else for that matter.
We see this separation play out repeatedly in the scriptures. The need for the curtain between the Holy and the Most Holy in the tabernacle and Temple...Moses and Jesus as intermediaries...the example you quoted here...the considerations in this very thread...
God creates, he remains the Creator but is not his creation. He reinforces this concept over and over.
As I understand it, this 'law' of separation established by the Creator himself, is what logically leads to the cause and effect of countless incidents in the Bible, the greatest of them being the necessity of Jesus to counterbalance the loss caused by Adam.
In other words, because NOT all is one...other measures must be taken...(versus God simply starting over for ex).
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Pete- I was just describing it. As a scribe or committee of scribes, they sought to promote the nomistic aspect of the cult. Obedience/compliance was valued above individualism and intellect. Personally, I don't regard that as especially enlightened or attractive.
Here, I was simply highlighting the inevitability of these stories to engage the most fundamental parts of ourselves, the mind heart and spirit. As you described, you took them personally and reacted accordingly.
are you suggesting 'spirit' is involved in chemical reactions?
I believe in God, so of course . If spirit animates the inanimate, then it follows that it will engage with elements, chemical reactions, etc. to the point of causing it to be alive.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
...and what's behind chemistry?..
..good, you see where this is going jeffro.
The fact that you are asking for the correct definition of the word 'spirit' confirms you believe it exists.
For the purpose of this thread, that's all that's needed.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Hehe...and what is behind cellular metabolism?
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Spirit is what animates the physical elements (carbon, hydrogen etc) into a living human body.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Nicolaou - Whatever value can be drawn from these stories if they're treated as allegorical is lost the moment they're taken literally. I think part of it is the fear that not taking stories like the Fall literally will bring the whole house of cards.
In this thread's example, the snake could have been anything else...a butterfly, horse, a rock etc...the meaning of the story would remain the same to a christian. In fact the exact same meaning would have been expressed with a hundred different settings and characters.
Pete touched above on the human aspects that a story like the one discussed in this thread engaged...the intellect, the heart and the spirit.
It pantomimes religious concepts like obedience to religious law when at odds with individual and intellectual freedom.
Does the materialist discard the mind, heart and spirit? Yet they are the aspects of a human being that the scriptures place the most importance on. The line between literal and spirit is not so clearly defined.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Tonus - The scriptures are fairly vague about this, though. Perhaps the one clear indication is that we are to spend eternity glorifying a being who doesn't need to be glorified.
Again, many folks do feel that need in their heart to show appreciation for their Creator. Not everyone is opposed.
Why go through a relatively brief life that doesn't come close to resembling the life we will spend the rest of eternity in?
For the same folks I mentioned above, this isn't a problem. Myself personally, I do think that things here are indeed a little vague. When I read the Bible, the line between spirit and material gets very blurry...will it be the same or different in 'heaven'? Not sure.
this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?
god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.
in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.
Tonus -Over a long enough time span, it is reasonable to expect that none of his creation will avoid his wrath.
Not correct, if the scriptures are to be believed regarding the eventual unity between mankind and God.
What scenario is there, where we do not offend god? The only possible future where we are not all hellbound is one where we are stripped of free will and remade to serve. And if this was to be the eventual outcome, why not do it from the start?
This is a reasonable conclusion based on what we perceive on the surface. However, it's again reducing/underestimating God's capacity.
Don't forget, that despite failing to follow his rules there are many that truly want to. These folks don't need to have their free will removed.
