Posts by Halcon

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

Halcon

Seabreeze-we are saved by grace through faith, shouldn't we be sure we have faith in the right Jesus to forgive sins? What if a person has faith in the wrong Jesus? Like a Jesus the Mormons invented? Or, the angelic Jesus Russell invented? Or, maybe a person has faith in a church or their good works. Will that save a person?

What if a person reads this and walks away agreeing with Peter?

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

God would condemn this person but save Peter?

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

elderberry- everyone agrees they are a bit like Adam and Eve just have to figure things out for themselves. a bit like the rest of humanity in that we only understand a fraction of the Bible and if there is a God then what was his purpose. Whoever wrote Genesis what did they want the readers to think?

Genesis describes God as the creator of all things including the rules by which all things will exist. It establishes God as the superior being and man as inferior, created for the purpose of praising and submitting to God. From the very get go in Genesis, God's actions will reveal how you feel about this.

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

Halcon

Seabreez- @SlimBoyFat: Are you still rejecting the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" Jesus offered in Mt. 26: 27-28 ? If so, then you have no basis for salvation what so ever. This is what is driving your rejection of the tri-partite nature of man, and by extension the deity of Christ.

Seabreeze I believe you are well intentioned. However, there's nothing in the scriptures that state that if we reject the tripartite nature of man it means we lose salvation.

Sloppyjoe made a good argument that we could interpret the scriptures as stating that Jesus is the same as God, or that Jesus is the son of God (below God).

If by chance we misunderstood this one thing (believing that the word 'son' means son), but placed faith in everything else wholeheartedly...we would still be condemned to hell?

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Duran - To pray for his recovery reminds me of the saying; 'Everyone wants to go to heaven, just not today'.

Hehe well the tv anchor wouldn't say they're praying for him to die would he?

It's also reported that he had his coffee and read the newspapers this morning. Doesn't sound like a man who's afraid of dying.

Kking-In a perfect paradise garden like Genesis depicts, Adam and Eve wouldn't have been able to comprehend the meaning of 'bad'.

Why did Adam attempt to defend himself, by blaming Eve?

A complete "clueless", as you described him, would have indeed been confused as to why God was asking him to explain himself.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

So, we are agreed that he is responsible for evil? For death? For curses? And thus, for suffering?

Yes, from the very first page of this thread.

Tell me, how do you know he won't evenutally condemn everyone to suffering?

We don't, just like we also don't know that he will.

It's good question to consider tho. It reveals just how powerless we are next to God.

"Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." -Ecclesiastes 3:11

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus-That sounds suspiciously like a personal (human) interpretation.

Are you sure?

Deuteronomy 30:19- "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses."

He can't be any more clear that he is responsible for both.

It seems more straightforward to read it as god being responsible for evil.

What would you call death and curses?

But don't ignore that he also creates life and blessings. And in case we get confused about what we should choose (because he knows we are dust after all) this is how he finishes the same verse 19-

"Now choose life, so that you and your children may live"

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus -One can infer this from what is being said and described. I assume that you take this same approach with Isaiah 45:7, for example.

The verse in Isaiah reiterates what we've already agreed, that God is capable of both punishment and salvation. The fact that he creates opposites seems to equate to God being confused to you.

It's a reasonable assessment. Also, if we cannot know the mind of god, then it is presumptuous to claim that it is not his assessment as well. How do you know this?

We know at least what his word tells us. Clearly not everything we learn of him gives us a warm and fuzzy feeling. Many things are even unsettling. The creator of the Flood, nearly wiping out all of his human creation? The creator of something as terrible as hell? It's not for nothing that he refers to himself as a "fear inspiring God". In the mind of many he simply cannot be someone who incites both fear and love, and so they reject him.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus -I think it's fair to say that the scriptures tell me he is confused or lying. Do you agree that it is not wrong for god to be confused or lying, since he is above human standards of behavior?

Except his word never states that he is confused or lying about our salvation or punishment. 'confused and lying' is your limited human assessment, not God's.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

His supposed options: Worship me (an evil entity), or don't and I'll destroy you.

As you said, you've chosen yours.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

We do have the thorny issue of god allowing a condition to exist that is in direct opposition to what he claims to want. Thus, we must assume he is confused or lying. Neither of these is a bad thing, since we cannot judge him on human terms. They simply are.

Unless the scriptures tell you he is confused or lying, then yes that is just as you stated, our own personal human assumption.

"They simply are" is correct. This is how it is. We'd like to modify the rules of God for all the reasons man is always repeating, but we can't. We will either move towards God or move away from him. He's told us he wants us to move towards him and more importantly, makes it possible.